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Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by icelord, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    Is that a good or bad omen?
     
  2. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    its a recognition that state based partisan politics doesn't work and that working smart will..... using extant infrastructure even if in another state is about common sense business
     
  3. Oberon

    Oberon Member

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    Unusual to see contract announcements in a white paper; but as the DWP is supposed to be fully costed we should see funds provided for it in the Forward Estimates at Budget time in May.
     
  4. Volkodav

    Volkodav Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Not sure, you should read the employer reviews on Seek about Austal, even the ones that say they're ok complain of poor, disconnected management. My first visit to their Henderson facility I was impressed but as I became more familiar with it I became progressively less impressed, then concerned and now completely unimpressed at how they do business. I believe them to be totally over rated and assume a lot of it is due to the influence of the WA mafia as the reality of their performance is the complete opposite of the public and official perception.
     
  5. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    they used to do good work, in fact they were a golden mile ahead of INCAT in build quality...

    I'd even suggest that INCAT have now reversed that position.
     
  6. Jezza

    Jezza Member

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    In the aftermath of Tropical Cyclone Winston which struck the islands of Fiji last weekend Australia has contributed significant Defence assets and personnel to Operation Fiji Assist, with the Minister for Defence confirming that the LHD HMAS Canberra would be despatched to arrive in the disaster zone by March 1.
    Operation Fiji Assist widens - LHD deployed

    This should be a good test for HMAS Canberra.
     
  7. Nick underscore

    Nick underscore New Member

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    Very good to see the quick response. Half the Aus C-17 fleet supporting the operation too.

    Confident once all the assets in place, Aust & NZ will be well placed to support our SW pacific neighbours, in their time of need.

    Really would like us to put in a cheeky offer for another UK Bay..
     
  8. Trackmaster

    Trackmaster Member

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    I understand the Canberra is at Fisherman Island in Brisbane.

    I understand she docked yesterday. If supplies are being loaded, it's been very low key.
     
  9. Volkodav

    Volkodav Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    I don't think the US management solution worked out too well for them. I was quite surprised at the culture and vibe of the place, reminded me of a company I worked for in the mid noughties, looked good from the outside but something was just off, a bit like an abusive marriage with a controlling personality projecting an image of normalcy in public but behind closed doors......

    Back in 2007 there was a rumour that Austal would front GD to buy ASC, a lot of people, including me thought that would be great but now I think most are glad it didn't happen as it would have been disastrous. The first inkling I had that all was not good was in conversation with ABS surveyors who had worked on LCS 2 and their description of design and management issues with the project, a couple of years latter I was working with ACPBs but not Austal and started to become very concerned at some of the issues I was seeing and confused about why they were there at all.

    It was only when I had the opportunity to visit Henderson and see Austal in action, through an availability, that I came to realise at least part of the issue, they are more like TVR than Porsche, let alone Toyota. Looks good but really isn't and reliability doesn't come into it, should anything brake, or simply not work properly, then its someone else's fault, or at least problem.

    I honestly believe they do not have the management or technical depth to conduct a major defence project.
     
  10. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    its been long in the planning though.....

    things are put into play just in case as soon as these events occur. - so by the time there is an official announcement there are only basic things left to trigger
     
  11. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    I've had a USN colleague describe them as having a "cottage industry" culture and not ready for the main game...

    and he was a fan of the westpac express platform.
     
  12. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    Hi GF

    Did you enjoy the early start?

    Do you know roughly what time they will release the DWP and the best site on the net to get it from?
     
  13. Massive

    Massive Active Member

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    Manpower increase

    The reports of a 6000 increase in manpower were interesting.

    Majority to Army and Navy I imagine?

    Thoughts?

    Massive
     
  14. oldsig127

    oldsig127 Active Member

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    The reports I've seen and heard quoted 5,000 but it seems even that is an exaggeration. The Defence Minister speaking in a radio interview this morning said something like 2,500 new jobs and 2,300 "re-allocated" from other areas. I take it that she means the "reallocated" jobs are similar to a company sacking unwanted boilermakers and hiring web designers. Take your pick which areas of the current forces lose out, but at least a real increase of 2,500 is somewhat positive

    oldsig127

    (Edit: She actually said "recategorized" not reallocated
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  15. DaveS124

    DaveS124 Active Member

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    Good post, oldsig.

    Some of the media got a bit excited this week.

    We'll see what the real numbers are in an hour or two.
     
  16. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  17. oldsig127

    oldsig127 Active Member

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    He also said "Three additional AWDs"

    Mis-spoken because the AWDs are hardly additional capabilities rising from this DWP, but I'm sure it caused a few heart flutters!

    As far as I'm concerned the confirmation of 9 frigates is as good news as the submarines (because there had been suggestions at one time that the numbers would be reduced below eight) and 12 larger more capable OPVs to replace 14 patrol boats is also welcome - I had feared they'd trim numbers further than that or go for a hi-lo mix

    oldsig127
     
  18. vonnoobie

    vonnoobie Active Member

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    While we are making headway in regards to the Frigates thus making a 2020 build date possible I have yet to see much from the government in what there requirements for the OPV's are, Seeing how long is can take the beaurocrats to decide on something I do worry that a 2018 build date will not be possible.

    In regards to the submarines in the white paper Defence white paper: new submarine fleet to cost taxpayers $150 billion has said that defence has calculated the cost of the 12 boats at $50 billion not including life time costs, Is this accurate or has it been another case of the media jumping the gun without dotting their i's and crossing their t's?
     
  19. oldsig127

    oldsig127 Active Member

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    I should think that we'll know better in the second half of this year, but personally expect it'll be the second half of 2018 at best unless the OPV choice is more largely OTS than we have a habit of purchasing.

    Jumping the gun. The PM stressed that the $50b figure is costed, the CDF stressed that sustainment cost wouldn't be known until after the completion of the CEP, and laughed off the media clown who tried to tell him that it would be double the purchase cost - merely saying that it would be at best a rule of thumb guess.

    I assume it was either an SMH hack, or someone who took their cue from an SMH article. Given the quality of Defence reporting in mainstream press I suggest that we'd be better waiting on someone who has a clue.

    oldsig127
     
  20. oldsig127

    oldsig127 Active Member

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    Less than good news from the DWP in my opinion. I guess I can understand putting off the replacement of our mine countermeasures capability given that the technology is in flux and increasingly being done using remotely controlled vessels. However, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of farming out survey to commercial interests.

    The two points together pretty much (for the near future) eliminates the Rudd era idea of a common hull being used for patrol, mine countermeasures and survey which may be a pity in so far as industry and sustainment is concerned.

    oldsig127