Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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Stampede

Well-Known Member
Ok so that is interesting and a little perplexing !!

"Rear Admiral Hammond didn’t say what the cause of the accident was – just that it wasn’t a maintenance or mechanical"

If that is a direct quote, verbatim, curious ?
Interesting photo.
Have not seen six helicopters of a common type take off from a LHD flight deck before.
In this case MH-60R Seahawks . Great to see.

Interesting that the helicopters are taking off in a reverse direction while conducting a running take off.

Is this common practise?

Regards S
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is there any possibility the LOTE program for the Collins class undertaken by SAAB could involve cutting in half the submarine to add further compartments and actually lengthening the submarines?
There are articles SAAB has performed this on the Gotland class to add further capability,is this an opportunity to add further capabilities to this class
Its highly likely that collins will need to be cut open as part of the LOTE. It looks like effectively being gutted.

The LOTE is going to be quite extensive, including changing the diesel engines, the main electric motor, electrical distribution, sensors, computer systems, and all the normal maintenance, pipes, hvac, batteries, waste, etc. Effectively putting all the stuff into the Collins hull that we wanted in the Attack class.

Could it be made bigger (longer with some sort of hull extension)? That currently isn't part of the scope. In past history, in different countries, some submarines have changed dimensions in such a reconfiguration to fit additional capabilities or equipment. TBH detail design AFAIK has not yet started, so we won't yet know.

However, Collins, with brand new, more powerful and reliable MTU diesels, new more efficient and more powerful main motor and generator, new sensors, new subsystems, latest combat system revision, new batteries possibly of a new battery chemistry or type, would be an impressive diesel submarine. I would imagine they would be heavily looking at sub systems from the Astute/Virginia class to see what can be incorporated, to both improve Collins and have commonality with the future submarines. Also the supply line for Collins is right now.

While there is a lot of singing and dancing over the new subs, our existing subs are actually the platforms we have, and the first six submarines we actually "make" and that will make up the majority of the sub force for the next 20-30 years will actually be Collins.
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Ok so that is interesting and a little perplexing !!

"Rear Admiral Hammond didn’t say what the cause of the accident was – just that it wasn’t a maintenance or mechanical"

If that is a direct quote, verbatim, curious ?
Rear Admiral Hammond's words quoted on the official ADF website are not quite so specific:

'The Royal Australian Navy has lifted temporary restrictions on MH-60R flying operations.

A suspension was enacted as a precaution after an MH-60R helicopter attached to HMAS Brisbane ditched in the Philippine Sea on 13 October during a routine flight.

“Initial evidence indicates that the incident is not an issue impacting the rest of the MH-60R fleet,” Commander Australian Fleet, Rear Admiral Hammond said.

“The MH-60R is a reliable platform with over 300 operating worldwide. Navy has a rigorous and regular maintenance schedule to ensure they remain both safe and effective.”

The three air-crew on board the helicopter at the time of the incident were safely recovered and are continuing deployed operations in HMAS Brisbane.'


Interestingly, when I checked that site earlier today I thought it did include the comments re maintenance and mechanical. I was surprised that such specific info would be released prior to a formal investigation. Perhaps though I just read what I was expecting to see after first reading the 'Contact' article!

Tas
 
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DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting photo.
Have not seen six helicopters of a common type take off from a LHD flight deck before.
In this case MH-60R Seahawks . Great to see.

Interesting that the helicopters are taking off in a reverse direction while conducting a running take off.

Is this common practise?

Regards S
Read the actual article underneath the photo and you'll see this : "A single MH-60 Romeo helicopter (photo digitally altered)" ;)
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting photo.
Have not seen six helicopters of a common type take off from a LHD flight deck before.
In this case MH-60R Seahawks . Great to see.

Interesting that the helicopters are taking off in a reverse direction while conducting a running take off.

Is this common practise?

Regards S
I was intrigued to see an image with six Romeos taking off or on Adelaide's deck but the image caption did say 'digitally altered'!

The helo taking off looked like one from a series of photos taken by the same photographer during first of class trials and I wonder if artistic licence was taken to add 5 more helos. If it is a 'fake' I am surprised that the navy would have sanctioned it on their official website. During the trials the photos originally published only ever showed one Romeo with the ship's MRH-90 also appearing on occasion.

Some photos taken during the trials also showed the Romeo taking off in the reverse direction but the ship could have been stationary or wind direction could have been a determining factor.


Recently a second series also headed "First of Class Trials' has been added and that includes the 'digitally altered' image.


Perplexing!

Perhaps someone in the know can enlighten us as to whether the image is genuine or is indeed a fake.

Tas
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Read the actual article underneath the photo and you'll see this : "A single MH-60 Romeo helicopter (photo digitally altered)" ;)
Thanks DDG38. Either I am going crazy or the Defence site has been working overtime with corrections. Or perhaps 'Contact' have corrected it themselves.

Thank you for pointing that out. I am sure the words "single MH-60R" have been added since it was first put up but at least we now know it was a fake!

Tas
 
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Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Hey folks, just a question about painting the mast black. I have noticed that they have painted the mast on the Canberra class black, and now it appears that HMAS Ballarat has a main mast painted black as well. I wonder what would be the reason to do so.

As a reference, here's a new RAN video just posted a day ago:
I can confirm no masts have been painted black on the Anzacs. Ballarat’s is only black from soot. The masts get cleaned once a year when they come in for a maintenance activity. Cheers.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Its highly likely that collins will need to be cut open as part of the LOTE. It looks like effectively being gutted.

The LOTE is going to be quite extensive, including changing the diesel engines, the main electric motor, electrical distribution, sensors, computer systems, and all the normal maintenance, pipes, hvac, batteries, waste, etc. Effectively putting all the stuff into the Collins hull that we wanted in the Attack class.

Could it be made bigger (longer with some sort of hull extension)? That currently isn't part of the scope. In past history, in different countries, some submarines have changed dimensions in such a reconfiguration to fit additional capabilities or equipment. TBH detail design AFAIK has not yet started, so we won't yet know.

However, Collins, with brand new, more powerful and reliable MTU diesels, new more efficient and more powerful main motor and generator, new sensors, new subsystems, latest combat system revision, new batteries possibly of a new battery chemistry or type, would be an impressive diesel submarine. I would imagine they would be heavily looking at sub systems from the Astute/Virginia class to see what can be incorporated, to both improve Collins and have commonality with the future submarines. Also the supply line for Collins is right now.

While there is a lot of singing and dancing over the new subs, our existing subs are actually the platforms we have, and the first six submarines we actually "make" and that will make up the majority of the sub force for the next 20-30 years will actually be Collins.
There has also been talk of the Periscopes being replaced with Optronic Masts. Would also certainly help with the transfer to the SSNs if it can be done within the LOTE, is definitely going to be interesting to see what's in the LOTE.
 

seaspear

Active Member
Its highly likely that collins will need to be cut open as part of the LOTE. It looks like effectively being gutted.

The LOTE is going to be quite extensive, including changing the diesel engines, the main electric motor, electrical distribution, sensors, computer systems, and all the normal maintenance, pipes, hvac, batteries, waste, etc. Effectively putting all the stuff into the Collins hull that we wanted in the Attack class.

Could it be made bigger (longer with some sort of hull extension)? That currently isn't part of the scope. In past history, in different countries, some submarines have changed dimensions in such a reconfiguration to fit additional capabilities or equipment. TBH detail design AFAIK has not yet started, so we won't yet know.

However, Collins, with brand new, more powerful and reliable MTU diesels, new more efficient and more powerful main motor and generator, new sensors, new subsystems, latest combat system revision, new batteries possibly of a new battery chemistry or type, would be an impressive diesel submarine. I would imagine they would be heavily looking at sub systems from the Astute/Virginia class to see what can be incorporated, to both improve Collins and have commonality with the future submarines. Also the supply line for Collins is right now.

While there is a lot of singing and dancing over the new subs, our existing subs are actually the platforms we have, and the first six submarines we actually "make" and that will make up the majority of the sub force for the next 20-30 years will actually be Collins.
I agree that there are no actual plans on lengthening the upgraded Collins class but could there be advantages in doing this to include capabilities certainly the Attack class is a twenty-metre longer boat so may potentially make it easier to include those advantages by the use of a small plug as mentioned for the Gotland class upgrade of two metres in the article below.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It's probably either in homage to Joe Black, DT member, or more likely to hide the mess that exhaust from the funnels makes.

oldsig
About bloody time. I’ve made several posts here over the years advocating for it to stop the ships looking like Bombay bum boats only to be howled down by some saying sailors are too bust to maintain a clean ship. Hint, see how immaculate the JMSDF ships are.
The lessons learned from the days of steamships and soot seemed to have been forgotten.
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Now I’m depressed!
Me too!

I'm depressed that the RAN would put up a fake image on the official ADF website with out making clear the extent of how much it had been digitally altered (i.e. turning a single helicopter into six). The wording on the ADF site as of 2.51pm EST had still not made it clear.
At least the release by 'Contact" was altered to include the word 'single". For years I have accepted images on the government Defence site as genuine so I hope this is a one off.

Mind you I quite like the concept of being able to deploy six Romeos from an LHD in particular circumstances. ;)

Tas
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Hey folks, just a question about painting the mast black. I have noticed that they have painted the mast on the Canberra class black, and now it appears that HMAS Ballarat has a main mast painted black as well. I wonder what would be the reason to do so.

As a reference, here's a new RAN video just posted a day ago:
Only taken 10years from when they launched HMAS Perth and realised the Mast got soot from exhuast below and might need to be black to stop dibbies and Greenies painting it regularly.

Typical Navy in response ordered more paint
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Does the LHD g full speed in reverse as well to give some wind over deck.............................oops, Helicopter not fixed wing!!!!

S :rolleyes:
But to be honest, can't say I have ever seen it done before and can't think of any practical reason to do so, happy to be corrected.

Thinking it may have just been for the photo shoot for the stacked pic ?

Cheers
 
Hi everyone, curious to see whether there are any plans to equip the Canberra class LHD’s with an 8 x cell quad packed for ESSM. This imo would greatly improve the ability to operate in contested environment such as what we will likely face in the future.
Cheers
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Only taken 10years from when they launched HMAS Perth and realised the Mast got soot from exhuast below and might need to be black to stop dibbies and Greenies painting it regularly.

Typical Navy in response ordered more paint
It's all the stokers fault. They shouldn't be making so much smoke. Maybe they should be up there painting the funnel, but then they don't know what a paint brush is for, the freshers would probably kill them, and getting a stoker out of their pit is damn nigh impossible except when "Up Spirits" and "Shore leave for off duty watches" is piped. :p
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Hi everyone, curious to see whether there are any plans to equip the Canberra class LHD’s with an 8 x cell quad packed for ESSM. This imo would greatly improve the ability to operate in contested environment such as what we will likely face in the future.
Cheers
IIRC that was supposed to be a capability option for the design, but at least at this point it seems as though the benefits to including such a capability are outweighed (or since this is a naval thread, out-displacemented...) by the negatives. One has to remember that it is not just a question of whether or not there is sufficient mass to add a VLS and missile load out, there are also issues about finding sufficient appropriate real estate aboard the LHD to fit a VLS. Then there would be concerns about the impact of hot exhaust gases upon on important mission systems (think some sensors and especially comms dishes and antennae farms). Also, the H in LHD stands for helicopters, which means that helicopters would be taking off, landing, or operating in the vicinity on a regular basis. It might become quite difficult for the officers responsible for VLS weapon launches and the officers responsible for aircraft ops to coordinate activities at critical moments. It would do an LHD little good if it needed to fire a self-defence missile salvo at an inbound AShM that managed to penetrate the air defence umbrella and a blue force helicopter was in or near the flight path the outbound SAM would be taking.
 
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