Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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76mmGuns

Active Member
If we go Virginia, what will the UK contribute towards our subs?

Sigh, waiting 18 months for the result of their discussions is testing my patience, just a week after the announcement :)
 

Lolcake

Member
The improved LA class is still an extremely formidable boat. Leasing them after they undergo their LE wouldn't be half bad and would immediately give us deterrence. Only issue is the crew. That needs to be addressed starting now. Doubt they would lease us any Virginia's

I'm hoping we could somehow forgo upgrading the Collins. that would be a huge sum of money that could be put into the infrastructure, recruitment or the boats themselves. Sell them off as they are to taiwan. With what has been discussed seems like a huge upgrade and refit that would be in the billions.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The improved LA class is still an extremely formidable boat. Leasing them after they undergo their LE wouldn't be half bad and would immediately give us deterrence. Only issue is the crew. That needs to be addressed starting now. Doubt they would lease us any Virginia's

I'm hoping we could somehow forgo upgrading the Collins. that would be a huge sum of money that could be put into the infrastructure, recruitment or the boats themselves. Sell them off as they are to taiwan. With what has been discussed seems like a huge upgrade and refit that would be in the billions.
And the cost of the, leasing, maintenance, and upkeep of 30- 40 year old SSNs is going to be cheaper than the LOTE of the Collins? If the LA class boats were 20 years old had just had a LOTE and a refuel, then yes it may be viable, but they haven't and the refuel alone costs a fortune. The hulls also suffer from radiation degradation over time which SSKs don't. There's nothing that can be done about.
 

Reptilia

Member
The new shed being built for the attack class program can fit subs around 120m or thereabouts, Not enough room for 140m from the plans I’ve seen. the length of the hall is about 250-260m(listed at 280m on previous plans) but 1/3 of that is Passover from the hull workshop or the opening door in the side where completed sections come through and passed over By crane. A 3d video of the main hall and the rest of the site is on the naval group australia site.
starts at about 2.30 in the industry update video.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Any chance we bypass the Astute and takeon the Dreadnought?
Haven't you done any basic research or read the posts above? The Dreadnought Class are SSBN.

EDIT: You have been banned for trolling. There have been accusations of trolling levelled against you by other posters over the last few days and you have been on here long enough to know that all trolls are instantly banned upon discovery.
 
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ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I’m giving submarines a rest.
An interesting difference between the Arafura Class OPVs and the Brunei version is shown in this pic (Australian Warship issue 111)
1632449919578.jpegwhich shows a step/break between the main deck and the flight deck.
The four Darussalam ships are flush decked.
I assume the reason is to increase headroom under the flight deck. Does anyone have better info?
 

Geddy

Member
Gents, does anyone have a reference for the structure of the SEA 1000 contract? Wouldn’t mind reading how it was set up, in detail.
I’m also curious about the US or UK’s engineering skill training path for their nuclear submarine engineers. Does anyone know anything out this?
 
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Stampede

Well-Known Member
I’m giving submarines a rest.
An interesting difference between the Arafura Class OPVs and the Brunei version is shown in this pic (Australian Warship issue 111)
View attachment 48539which shows a step/break between the main deck and the flight deck.
The four Darussalam ships are flush decked.
I assume the reason is to increase headroom under the flight deck. Does anyone have better info?
Agree there is a difference.

My take is that the flight decks on the two classes are the same. the difference is that the Arafura class appears to have a lower side mid ship between the flight deck and near the 40mm gun.
In fact I don't feel its lower, just the perception with the absence of a solid railing for want of a better discription.
There is still a step up to the flight deck for both classes.


Suggest this is in part to accommodate our RAN requirement to carry much larger 8.5m RIBs.

Open to other suggestions.

Regards S
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Gents, does anyone have a reference for the structure of the SEA 1000 contract? Wouldn’t mind reading how it was set up, in detail.
I’m also curious about the US or UK’s engineering skill training path for their nuclear submarine engineers.
You won't see any real public detail on the contract, just what you can find in searching the project on the Defence websites.

As for Nuclear Engineers, plenty out there, this will give you some idea. Not sure how up to date these are though ? a search will find it, I downloaded these a year or so ago. This is not going to be a quick process to gain the necessary trained crew to stand up a credible nuclear submarine force, this will take time.



Also have a read of this


It might be a few years old but Peter has forgotten more about submarines than most people think they know !! Some really relevant info still on what it would take to do what we are now talking about doing.

Cheers
 

76mmGuns

Active Member
I’m giving submarines a rest.
An interesting difference between the Arafura Class OPVs and the Brunei version is shown in this pic (Australian Warship issue 111)
View attachment 48539which shows a step/break between the main deck and the flight deck.
The four Darussalam ships are flush decked.
I assume the reason is to increase headroom under the flight deck. Does anyone have better info?

The step is to make space for the hypersonic missiles being developed ;)
 

John Newman

The Bunker Group
I’m giving submarines a rest.
An interesting difference between the Arafura Class OPVs and the Brunei version is shown in this pic (Australian Warship issue 111)
View attachment 48539which shows a step/break between the main deck and the flight deck.
The four Darussalam ships are flush decked.
I assume the reason is to increase headroom under the flight deck. Does anyone have better info?
Mate, have a look at this:


Good selection of images of the Arafura OPV model and the Brunei navy OPV.

The Brunei OPVs only have one small RHIB on the port side, it appears to be mounted lower down and more in line with the funnel.

The Arafura OPVs have two large RHIBs, mounted higher up, more in line with the deck between the back of the bridge and forward of the funnel, their cranes are much larger too.

Anyway, some good images to show the differences.

Cheers,
 

Flexson

Member
Agree there is a difference.

My take is that the flight decks on the two classes are the same. the difference is that the Arafura class appears to have a lower side mid ship between the flight deck and near the 40mm gun.
In fact I don't feel its lower, just the perception with the absence of a solid railing for want of a better discription.
There is still a step up to the flight deck for both classes.


Suggest this is in part to accommodate our RAN requirement to carry much larger 8.5m RIBs.

Open to other suggestions.

Regards S
Solid Railing = Bulwark.

I would say you are correct though.
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
The one child family may be pretty significant in shaping China's thinking going forward. China's demographics are already almost upside down because of the one child policy. They may not really be in a position to fight a war which may cost them a large hunk of the youngest, fittest segment of their population.
The one child policy was relaxed in 2013 and abolished in 2015. The one child policy didn't cover rural Chinese who were exempt. Demographics have also changed in almost all developed nations where birth rates have fallen below replacement levels.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The one child policy was relaxed in 2013 and abolished in 2015. The one child policy didn't cover rural Chinese who were exempt. Demographics have also changed in almost all developed nations where birth rates have fallen below replacement levels.
@KiwiRob you were told in this post not to go OFF TOPIC any more. If you do so anymore the Moderators will consider taking action against you.
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
@KiwiRob you were told in this post not to go OFF TOPIC any more. If you do so anymore the Moderators will consider taking action against you.
I didn't go off topic I replied to a post in this discussion where the poster said the Chinese one child policy was shaping Chinas forward thinking, that one child policy did shape forward thinking, to the point where they realised it was a dud and cancelled it. By the time the RAN get these subs in the water the Chinese (might) have a whole fleet of freshly minted late teen and early 20's bodies, if they start having more children which isn't a given.

As has been discussed earlier the RAN also has recruitment and retention problems, they can't crew all the vessels they have now, with the shrinking birth rates won't this be even more difficult in the 2030's when they have more vessels to crew? How many sailors would be prepared to be away from home and family for the length of time an SSN can deploy? UK and US SSN's patrol for up to 6 months, would Australia be any different?

 

JohnJT

Active Member
I’m giving submarines a rest.
An interesting difference between the Arafura Class OPVs and the Brunei version is shown in this pic (Australian Warship issue 111)
View attachment 48539which shows a step/break between the main deck and the flight deck.
The four Darussalam ships are flush decked.
I assume the reason is to increase headroom under the flight deck. Does anyone have better info?
It's just a cutout in the bulwark of the Arafura that the Darussalam doesn't have. The decks are the same level on both ships.
You can see it in the model below:


The bulwark continues through on the Darussalam class and finishes level with the flight deck:


You can see that the sailors on the flight deck are higher than the sailors behind the bulwark. It has the same half deck step up that the Arafura has.
 
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