Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The V-22's are so compact! Self folding!. So much fast air lift in such a tiny space.

Then you have the performance capabilities a V22 can carry nearly twice as much as a Nh90, twice as fast. CH-53E which can carry what 60% more than a Chinook. All that gear is expensive, but in terms of moving and inserting by air, its a huge difference.
For naval operations the CH-53E wins against the Chinook but it does cost almost 3 times more. If the Chinook gets new T408s, it would be the more cost effective choice for land forces and HADR. A lot to like about the V-22 if you can afford it.
 

DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
This is a great shot from inside HMAS Canberra's dock during TS21 :
"Able Seaman Boatswains Mate Matthew Bond prepares lines for the light landing craft in the well dock of HMAS Canberra, prior to the insertion of the ground combat element to Forrest Beach, Queensland, during Exercise Talisman Sabre 2021." Source : ADF Image Library
20210730ran8555536_0001 .jpg
 

Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Has there been any indication that the Arafura class will be fitted with data links eg Link 11, 16 or possibly 22 in the future? I would be surprised if it doesn't noting the capability of its ops room & sensors.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
I seem to remember that the press releases in the early days of the program talked about interoperability with task groups and being able to contribute to the surveillance picture. In my mind that implies (but certainly does not mandate) links of some sort. Link 11 is a bit passe these days, I think, so maybe not that.
 
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Stampede

Well-Known Member
Has there been any indication that the Arafura class will be fitted with data links eg Link 11, 16 or possibly 22 in the future? I would be surprised if it doesn't noting the capability of its ops room & sensors.
This site has a reference to Link 16 on the Arafura Class



Regards S
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Has there been any indication that the Arafura class will be fitted with data links eg Link 11, 16 or possibly 22 in the future? I would be surprised if it doesn't noting the capability of its ops room & sensors.
Only data-links? Ha! (Jokes…) There is a review at the moment looking at refitting the class with anti-ship missiles…

And let the arguments begin…
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Wait what?
Anti-ship missiles on the Arafura class?
I am actually a fan of the idea of Australia getting missile corvettes but the Arafura wouldn't be my platform of choice.
If I was looking to find a military role for the Arafura it would be as a mothership for a fleet of drones. For the ship itself I would be content to improve its missile self defence capability, but anything more than that would be tossing away good money that could be spent on other things.

All that tells me is that the navy is desperate to cover delays in the Hunter program by randomly putting missiles on any available hull.
 

Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Only data-links? Ha! (Jokes…) There is a review at the moment looking at refitting the class with anti-ship missiles…

And let the arguments begin…
I'd just be happy with the data links for a starter, anything that can increase their tactical awareness is a good thing. Even the Supply class are fitted with at least Link 11. The Huon class were fitted with Link 11 when I was in a decade ago, though strangely they only had a Receive capability.
 
Only data-links? Ha! (Jokes…) There is a review at the moment looking at refitting the class with anti-ship missiles…

And let the arguments begin…
But...but.... but...they're constabulary use only! :) Best bit of news I've seen on here for a while. TBH I think that was a probable plan from the start and that they'll end up with more too....
 
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spoz

The Bunker Group
People, people control yourselves....

Defence constantly studies a whole raft of issues, most of which never see the light of day in capability terms; it's the nature of ensuring you are not leaving gaps in force structure or operational concepts. Even if there is such a study, and even if comes to the conclusion that it would be feasible to do so, and even if it then decided that it was a good idea (not the same things). and even if it was decided somewhere in the funny farm that it was a priority, there would be no guarantee that it would be funded in either the short or the longer term. It would then become one more of many counters in the overall horse trading of fitting requirements inside budgets that always goes on.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Only data-links? Ha! (Jokes…) There is a review at the moment looking at refitting the class with anti-ship missiles…

And let the arguments begin…
The reality of this I cannot say.

My question is have we worked out what the O P and V in OPV actually means.

How far Off shore are the Arafura's to venture.
Are they just a long distance constabulary vessel?
Or are they just a larger more flexible platform for local waters.

If the former, then they may well be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.
If the later, I'd suggest with the changing geo political climate, it may well dictate they'll also be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.

Trust their is actually a review and it is actioned upon promptly to reflect the changing needs for the decade ahead.



Regards S
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The reality of this I cannot say.

My question is have we worked out what the O P and V in OPV actually means.

How far Off shore are the Arafura's to venture.
Are they just a long distance constabulary vessel?
Or are they just a larger more flexible platform for local waters.

If the former, then they may well be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.
If the later, I'd suggest with the changing geo political climate, it may well dictate they'll also be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.

Trust their is actually a review and it is actioned upon promptly to reflect the changing needs for the decade ahead.



Regards S
There most certainly is a review. It’s doing far more obviously than just what I wrote above, but getting more fires from Navy is one aspect I think will actually seriously be looked at.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
The reality of this I cannot say.

My question is have we worked out what the O P and V in OPV actually means.

How far Off shore are the Arafura's to venture.
Are they just a long distance constabulary vessel?
Or are they just a larger more flexible platform for local waters.

If the former, then they may well be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.
If the later, I'd suggest with the changing geo political climate, it may well dictate they'll also be challenged to perform roles never envisaged by our former three classes of smaller patrol boats.

Trust their is actually a review and it is actioned upon promptly to reflect the changing needs for the decade ahead.



Regards S
I think we may see the Arafura’s doing more visits to South Pacific Neighbours as part of the South Pacific Step up then the Armidale’s have been doing, to try and counter China’s growing influence.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Chinese warships will be regular visitors to this region and that is something Australia needs to start planning for.

Given our lack of destroyers and frigates it may well fall onto the Arafuras to respond to these incursions. Clearly this is not a role that they were designed to fill.

Lately I have been finding myself wondering if later tranches of this ship could not be upgraded to make them more suited to this role.

Lurrsen do offer a 90 meter design based on the 80 meter hull so there could be a growth path for later builds of this vessel.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
There most certainly is a review. It’s doing far more obviously than just what I wrote above, but getting more fires from Navy is one aspect I think will actually seriously be looked at.
Up arming the Arafura Class is a contentious subject here on DT, but none the less it's still a subject aired on many other defence publications.
Their size, space and weight will always present a challenge for weapons growth.
None the less.
I'd suggest some modest lightweight systems may be the starting point.
An ATGM such as Spike being introduced for Armys boxer has potential.
Comes in various sizes with a Non line of sight version performing out to 20 plus KM's or the lighter ER11 out to 10 km.

Either will certainly give options beyond the ships 40mm main gun.

Another option is a short range SAM in the Stinger / Mistral Class.
Good for keeping some intriguing helicopters / UAV's some extra distance from your ship.

Navy seems to like the Schiebel S-100 UAV.
This useful aircraft has some weapons scope that should be prioritized.
Will give the vessel a very good long range sensor / hard kill ability

Some passive defence measures should be considered.
The in service Nulka may seem an indulgence on a OPV, but would add some reactionary capability to unwelcome escalation.
Would also add to the Arafura's ability to sail with the majors in a greater range of contingency's.
Much talk of the class acting as a node as a part of the fleet has potential.

The above are not about engaging a major Air / Sea threat, but rather to give some extra options in the Grey zone which I feel will be tested in the years ahead. I agree with Redlands that the OPV's will sail further afield visiting and patrolling the South Pacific and suggest also the equivalent distance to our North and West.

The Arafura Class should perform a more robust role INDEPENDANT of major fleet units.
We want to avoid seconding Destroyer / Frigates from doing constabulary roles.

They should also be able to compliment the Majors in appropriate circumstances.

They do have some space and weight to add to their potential.


Regards S
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Up arming the Arafura Class is a contentious subject here on DT, but none the less it's still a subject aired on many other defence publications.
Their size, space and weight will always present a challenge for weapons growth.
None the less.
I'd suggest some modest lightweight systems may be the starting point.
An ATGM such as Spike being introduced for Armys boxer has potential.
Comes in various sizes with a Non line of sight version performing out to 20 plus KM's or the lighter ER11 out to 10 km.

Either will certainly give options beyond the ships 40mm main gun.

Another option is a short range SAM in the Stinger / Mistral Class.
Good for keeping some intriguing helicopters / UAV's some extra distance from your ship.

Navy seems to like the Schiebel S-100 UAV.
This useful aircraft has some weapons scope that should be prioritized.
Will give the vessel a very good long range sensor / hard kill ability

Some passive defence measures should be considered.
The in service Nulka may seem an indulgence on a OPV, but would add some reactionary capability to unwelcome escalation.
Would also add to the Arafura's ability to sail with the majors in a greater range of contingency's.
Much talk of the class acting as a node as a part of the fleet has potential.

The above are not about engaging a major Air / Sea threat, but rather to give some extra options in the Grey zone which I feel will be tested in the years ahead. I agree with Redlands that the OPV's will sail further afield visiting and patrolling the South Pacific and suggest also the equivalent distance to our North and West.

The Arafura Class should perform a more robust role INDEPENDANT of major fleet units.
We want to avoid seconding Destroyer / Frigates from doing constabulary roles.

They should also be able to compliment the Majors in appropriate circumstances.

They do have some space and weight to add to their potential.


Regards S

Would it not be more advantageous to use the MV Sycamore design as a starting point to increase that capability. it was a project earlier on when Transfield were around they had write up about it in the Navy mag under pocket battleship. my google foo is not working cant find it at the moment

That was suppose to be a joint project between Australia and Malaysia from memory

edit

Found it

The-Navy-Vol_58_Part2-1996.pdf (navyleague.org.au)
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
I know up arming the Arafura's is an issue and I fully understand why. It isn't a warship ... there is a but however.

In the highly likely eventuality of the RAN going up against a Chinese warship operating in our region it would be expected that they be able to intimidate them.

Just how intimidating would an Arafura armed with a 40mm GP gun be?

However take a situation where an Arafura equipped with several anti-ship missiles were a few thousand meters off your bow. All of a sudden that ship is a threat and may be a deterrent for any ship operating too close to our territorial waters.

In a hot war ... yeah a missile armed Arafura is next to useless. In a grey zone conflict however it could be just as useful as an 8000 ton destroyer.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
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