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Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by icelord, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. Stampede

    Stampede Active Member

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    The latest edition of the The Navy Newspaper has an article about a RAN task group heading off for a four month exercise to South East Asia.
    Given the large number of ships deployed, and the number of large exercises and deployments already this year such as IPE19;I'm wondering is this a particularly high tempo year for the RAN?
    I must say that given the size of our fleet, such consistency of deployment and as a consequence availability of ships, is most impressive.
    I don't recall such sized task groups regularly heading overseas in the 80's and 90's.
    Can anyone confirm or comment on this perceived trend.

    Regards S
     
  2. spoz

    spoz Active Member

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    The full load draft is 4 metres, as Assail suggested. That’s (obviously) the forward end of the hull, the stern section is getting along in the other bay of that building. Still a lot to be done, though!

    On TG deployments, I was on one led by the last Hobart in ‘86 that had four DEs, and a couple of Fremantles for part of the time; and in Melbourne for one in 80 with or thereabouts with a DDG, a couple of DEs, a couple of Kiwis and Supply, so we’ve certainly done similar in the past although maybe not for some time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  3. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    We were both on that 1980 deployment Spoz and a good one it was.
    TG deployments withered with the decommissioning of Melbourne, CVS21 and we became a frigate navy where single ship deployments were the norm, that period between 1982 and roughly the next 20 years was the nadir for the RAN and that delinquency was only ended by the huge reality check of the E Timor crisis. Thereafter governments accepted the responsibility, at least in theory, for adequately resourcing the RAN despite some notable hiccups.
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Active Member

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    I think the answer that the USN and RAN want is "no", but based on practical reality and how technology is maturing, I think the answer is "yes". And that also seems the way that European navies are going too. I can speak for the detail of HMNZS Matataua, but it doesn't strike me that it provides an MCM capability across all aspects of maritime areas. With only divers, there is no real way to clear at any reasonable field in any reasonable time (beyond a port where there is significant advantages and support).

    I think in the future UUV and USV will become more prevalent, but noting that all options (including modules) now utilise influence sweeping (with a long % of success ad an unknown % against modern, smart mines) they just cannot do the job without accepting significant amount of risks to the capital / transport ships moving through that area. Many of the sweepers can only take one, maybe two, strikes before they are destroyed as opposed to a crewed solution that can place charges manually, allowing more resilience and time on station. In addition, we haven't proven that these linkages work in an actually congested EMS - hence why the optical fibre link between ROV and ship is guaranteed. On top of that, to have the sensors you need to penetrate all types of water conditions can't really be loaded on a single platform - especially one that needs to go against modern mines.

    I think it comes down to a higher HQ that has ignored the problem (watching PWOs interact in Canberra is - entertaining) that has left room for glossy brochures to take advantage of our thought that technology can fix everything. It may be that the next-generation of MCM after next are significantly uncrewed and modules work - but I think that when we critically look at what UUV and USV can actually do, we will be disappointed. I honestly think that you will see the Huon Class replacements be the missing link - starting as crewed vessels that do the job and morphing through becoming a TG leader of MCM modules to being a mothership for assets. But that'll take at least a decade or two.
     
  5. Stampede

    Stampede Active Member

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    Is this what the Arafura Class will actually look like?


    Trireme - Wikipedia
     
  6. aussienscale

    aussienscale Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    So are you actually going to expand on this or just quote a Wiki article ? This is exactly why the thread was locked in the first place !
     
  7. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    @hauritz You have been around here long enough to know that Wikipedia is not an acceptable source. You had better take to heart the warning about improving the quality of posts or you will suffer the consequences, because the well of Moderator patience has run dry.

    EDIT: Your future on here is being discussed by the Moderators because you are already on a final warning.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  8. Takao

    Takao Active Member

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    I can't speak to the whys and wherefores for the Bay class; they joined and left just after I did. The Bay class highlights the issues that the push for non-specialised minehunters brings up though. For modular or uncrewed options, they are almost always just too small to operate beyond inshore. The Huon can do off-shore (although I understand the 11.34 kts up to Japan was....not entertaining), meaning it can respond and it can clear without giving up other capabilities.
     
  9. spoz

    spoz Active Member

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    I can. As I have said before, the Bays were appropriate for what they were designed to do. That did not, however, meet the needs subsequently identified as to what a clearance requirement might be. In particular, their inability to transit in the open ocean and independently limited their ability to meet that requirement. As inshore minehunters, alone, however, they were perfectly successful.
     
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  10. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    The RAN’s attempts to provide MCM capability from the retirement of the Ton Class (1983) to the commissioning of the Huons (1994} took some unconventional routes.
    The Bays have been mentioned already, coming into service in ‘86/87.
    In 1988 Craft of Opportunity Programme (COOP) began with 3 hired trawlers, Salvatore V, Waverider and CaroleS and 4 purchased vessels Brolga, Koraaga, Gunundaal and Bermagui.
    There were also 2 tugs, Bandicoot and Wallaroo.
    They were bought to develop tactics and doctrine for minesweeping equipment including the Australian developed “clip on” influence and mechanical sweeps using side scan sonar. They were also tasked with undertaking route surveillance along the northern and eastern coast.
    The two tugs were fitted with a magnetic body and acoustic noisemakers for influence sweeps as well as wire sweeps for moored mines.
    The less said about the Flamingo Bay (Gunundaal), flooded on delivery voyage and never used, the better.

    Despite not having a modern MCM fleet at that time Navy certainly made the effort to continue their MCM capability despite the motley collection of Auxiliary (read mongrel) minesweepers.
    Info from Ross Gillet’s “Australia’s Fighting Ships”
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  11. old faithful

    old faithful Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    The Flamingo Bay?
    I have a feeling I know that ahhhh "boat" hahahaha.
    If its the one from Cairns.
    It was an 1956 ex Belgian ice breaking thing, bought from the Bahama's.
    I was hired as the deckie, and helped see a re-fit in Cairns. It was so rusty, had holes in hull. A lot of money was spent trying to turn her into a silk purse, but she was always going to be a pigs ear. I wonder if we are talking about the same boat? Her owner was a well known guy, Dave, I won't say his surname, a pretty eccentric Canadian/Bahama guy. He ended up as an episode on "I shouldn't be alive" after doing a some filming in the Soliman Islands of an underwater volcano, that went wrong.
     
  12. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    You’re right about the owner, I knew him well from his time in Darwin, however;
    This Flamingo Bay was the original, an ex trawler which he used for so called research first in Darwin then in Cairns. Navy sent a MCDO up to appraise the ship before sale, he was a year senior to me and an ex neighbour. I advised him not to touch the boat, it was out of Hull life but above water it looked very slick and white with lots of deckchair space, the rest is history.
    The hull gave up enroute to Sydney and despite repairs in Port Macquarie she was deemed unsuitable for naval service and disposed of.
    I did see the second edition in Cairns, thought it was an ocean tug but very odd indeed.
     
  13. aussienscale

    aussienscale Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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  14. AndyinOz

    AndyinOz New Member

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    NoCookies | The Australian Not a subscriber to The Australian so I can't really speak to the article or the context of the headline (maybe someone can help out there) but those sorts of headlines and opening sentences I suspect could well cause multiple random cases of 'frothing of the mouth' to occur all over the place.
    From the perspective of someone who is a complete novice of such matters I would suggest that we are going to have our hands full with introducing the Attack Class without the additional layer of complexity of trying to switch from conventional to nuclear propulsion, with all of the supporting infrastructure, institutional knowledge and experience that would require and entail. I would be curious to know if it was somewhat of a click-baity attempt by the journalist or something other. (Apologies in advance for posting on this particular topic and a link I had not read through the material on bit it just caught my eye).
     
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  15. DaveS124

    DaveS124 Active Member

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    Two things:

    (1) Thanks, Ngati & Co. for the recent activity at HQ DT re this thread,
    (2) Looks like the pennant number for the future HMAS HUNTER will be F101. The last time those digits got wet was when the patrol boat BAYONET was poncing around the parish. Am confident that BAE would not have marked this model thusly without RAN approval, and
    (3) ASSAIL's comments re current and projected RAN TGs are correct. When Tim Barrett was CN he announced their return as part of Plan Pelorus. Single-ship patrol deployments a la Dibb/Defence of Australia doctrine are rapidly becoming unhappy history. Good.

     
  16. StingrayOZ

    StingrayOZ Well-Known Member

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  17. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Vice Admiral Michael Noonan opening speech at Pacific 2019 yesterday.



    Xaviers report from Day 1 of Pacific 2019

     
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  18. aussienscale

    aussienscale Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    I will check up on the numbering for the class, mate of mine Russ build that model for BAE, he builds to spec from them so they would have stipulated the numbering, so guessing that it is correct

    Cheers
     
  19. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    I know very little about CN apart from what’s available online.
    He seems to have had a dream run but I’m a little underwhelmed by his oratory style, there is little gravitas, and he seems way too youthful to be the Chief.
    I see he’s had an Anzac command but also a lot of staff jobs. Maybe that’s what you need these days to learn all the corporate buzzwords delivered in that speech.
    But then again I guess I’m old and cynical and not familiar with all that bs.
     
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  20. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Xaviers report from Day 2 of Pacific 2019. Today he focussed on the RAN new builds: Hunter Class FFG, Arafura Class OPV, Attack Class SSK and the shipyard build program. Of note, the SSM / AShM for the Hunter Class has yet to be decided and the model shows 32 Mk 41 cells behind the 5"gun. The towed sonar array is the same Thales array that the RN has chosen.

     
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