Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[StingrayOZ]

I don't think there will be any more ships unless there are crews to crew them. Crewing is usually the expensive part of the ship. Many navies don't fully crew and operate their naval assets.

I don't see everyone joining the Astute program and I am not sure the UK wants it that way. They were and are expensive. Australia is in effect already a part of the Barracuda program, if Canada was looking for a SSN program to join, that would be an excellent one, based off commercial grade fuel and with international partners, and reasonable costs, with diesel variants as well. I doon't think Canada needs a SSN. I think the improvement in future battery tech is well suited to polar patrols, where you need under water endurance, but not huge transits.

 

[76mmGuns]

Not sure that cutting the VLS count will make them any better or more specialised as ASW ships (?). AFAIK they should be pretty exceptional in that role as currently envisaged. Then there's the issue of crewing the extra vessels... others would know more about that than me.

Personally I'd like to see us get the ball rolling on one day fielding an SSN fleet but that's a WHOLE other conversation

Cutting down the VLS would be for cost cutting, not for making it more ASW.

 

[ASSAIL]

Peak solar contribution to the National Electric Market (i.e. excluding NT and WA) is up to 20% of 30-minute averaged demand, of cause, that's then offset by no solar generation at night. There's been occasions within the last week (see same source on NEM 30-minute averaged input) where solar+wind+hydro has accounted for 40%.

There's been multiple studies that show 100% renewables is doable (e.g. AEMO 2011, ANU 2017). The ANU 2017 study (see above) suggests a 100% renewable with 30 hours hydro+battery storage would result in no significant rise in power prices:
"If no modelling constraints are applied, then we estimate that average LCOE for a balanced 100% renewable electricity system is $93 and $75 per MWh respectively using current and future wind and PV prices. This can be compared with the 2017 average wholesale market price in Australia of about $80/MWh"

Nuclear? the poms Hinkley Point reactor (nominal capacity of 3200MW) is predicted to cost over 20 Billion pounds, about A$35 Billion, up from an initial expected price (2012) of 16 billion pounds... and that's before construction has really got anywhere. The risk of further cost blow outs is rather high. We'd need about 4-5 such reactors to displace coal generation. Extrapolating UK figures above 4-5 nuclear plant would be $135-170 Billion, before factoring in any transmission infrastructure upgrades or developing any of the supporting nuclear industry (that'd cost a lot as well). Meanwhile the ANU 2017 100% renewable study for the full set of generation, storage and transmission upgrades comes in between $152-182 billion:
"The capital cost of the baseline scenarios (PV, wind, PHES and HVDC) for current and future PV/wind prices are $184 billion and$152 billion respectively. Approximately 60% is for construction of the PV and wind collectors, and 40% is for construction of PHES and HVDC"

Can we please stick to the thread topic, this discussion belongs elsewhere.

 

[pussertas]

BAE SYSTEMS 5 INCH GUN

 

[StingrayOZ]

BAE SYSTEMS 5 INCH GUN

Does the new 5" come with rubber mats to protect the deck? Do the shells actually ding the metal or just take off the non-slip?


I love the 5". The automated loading, ammunition selection, range of munitions. Very happy the uk and Canada are joining us with 5" love.

 

[pussertas]

Is there any reason the 5" gun is not being fitted to the Ocean Patrol Vessels? They are being built with a 3" gun.

Having a 5" gun on all the RAN combat ships would make the supply chain much easier to maintain.

However I do acknowledge that upgrading the OPV to 5" may require alterations below decks.

How many surplice 5" weapons does the RAN have in storage?

 

[Todjaeger]

Is there any reason the 5" gun is not being fitted to the Ocean Patrol Vessels? They are being built with a 3" gun.

Having a 5" gun on all the RAN combat ships would make the supply chain much easier to maintain.

However I do acknowledge that upgrading the OPV to 5" may require alterations below decks.

How many surplice 5" weapons does the RAN have in storage?

Do you mean the Arafura-class OPV? If so then your info on the gun is incorrect, since they are to be fitted with a 40 mm gun. The RAN is in (or at least seems to be) the process of having the major surface escorts standardize to a 5"/127 mm main gun. The small calibre guns the various RAN vessels will be fitted with so far seems to be a hodgepodge of different guns and calibre munitions. Not sure why there has not also been an effort to streamline and standardize, but oh well...

 

[Milne Bay]

AFAIR the OPV's will be fitted with a 40mm gun.
This is a loooong way from 3 inches and has been deemed suitable for the constabulary role that the vessels will perform.
5 inch on these would be overkill in my opinion.
MB

 

[ASSAIL]

Does the new 5" come with rubber mats to protect the deck? Do the shells actually ding the metal or just take off the non-slip?
View attachment 46742

I love the 5". The automated loading, ammunition selection, range of munitions. Very happy the uk and Canada are joining us with 5" love.

All ships carry or make “shot mats” or rather they did in the past. If they issue rubber mats now that would serve the same function.
Shot mats were heavy woven rope mats which protected the deck from the ejecting cartridge cases.
In your illustration you can see them laid on one area as the ship would be on a range firing on a constant relative bearing.
During a live firing such as NGS (Naval Gunfire Support) they may be laid right around the mount so that as the ship manoeuvres the deck remains protected.
The casings damage the paint not the deck and when the SHTF they probably would not be used at all.

 

[spoz]

It's still shot mats, at least in the RAN.

There are no spare 5 inch mounts in storage; there are a couple of old 5"/54 Mk 42s from the Charles F Adams class in museums and as gate guardians around the country but no spare Mk 45s, either Mod 2 or Mod 4. At something over $20m each, nor are there going to be any; and they are way too big at a bit over 20 tons and 9 metres in length to be fitted on the Arafura class.

 

[alexsa]

Is there any reason the 5" gun is not being fitted to the Ocean Patrol Vessels? They are being built with a 3" gun.

Having a 5" gun on all the RAN combat ships would make the supply chain much easier to maintain.

However I do acknowledge that upgrading the OPV to 5" may require alterations below decks.

How many surplice 5" weapons does the RAN have in storage?

The Arafura OPV is an 1800 tonne 80m vessels which has been fitted with the 57mm in the past (and will have a 40mm in RAN service). I suspect the structure below that mount is not designed for the 5" 45 nor would there be space for the gun house below the mount (all the rotating machinery for the shell and cartridge supply) as well as the magazines or hoists. None of this is easy to fit into an off the shelf design ................without major redesign .... effectively a new design .... so it would not really be off the shelf.

Added to that there is the top weight!!!!. The gun is mounted quite high up and I would suggest this is going to eat into you stability and vessel growth margin.

A 57mm or a 40mm is perfectly adequate for what this vessel is intended for.

 

[blueorchid]

It's still shot mats, at least in the RAN.

There are no spare 5 inch mounts in storage; there are a couple of old 5"/54 Mk 42s from the Charles F Adams class in museums and as gate guardians around the country but no spare Mk 45s, either Mod 2 or Mod 4. At something over $20m each, nor are there going to be any; and they are way too big at a bit over 20 tons and 9 metres in length to be fitted on the Arafura class.

The Navy purchased a M45 from the US around the time of the CEAFAR upgrade to the frigates, during the upgrades the gun of each boat was upgraded, the M45 from the US was upgraded first and this replaced the gun on the first CEAFAR frigate, that gun then was upgraded for the next upgraded frigate and so on.

So there is still one spare gun.

Cheers

 

[ASSAIL]

HMAS Hobart DDG39 has left FBE for her first oversees deployment, she was accompanied by the Anzac FFHs Parramatta and Stuart.
Also leaving Australia for this large Asian deployment are HMA Ships Ararat, Sirius, Leeuwin, Arunta, Gascoyne and Diamantina.
All ships will be back before Christmas.

Asia beckons for Navy’s largest Task Group

 

[ngatimozart]

All discussion regarding an Australian nuclear power industry, RAN SSNs / SSBNs, Australian nuclear power generation etc., are to be discussed at:

Australian Nuclear discussions ​

NOT in this or other Australian threads because they derail the threads. Because it's an interconnected issue between military and non-military sectors, often inseparable, this thread can cover those topics.

The Moderators will suffer little tolerance of those who persist in polluting Australian threads with this topic so BE WARNED.

 

[spoz]

The Navy purchased a M45 from the US around the time of the CEAFAR upgrade to the frigates, during the upgrades the gun of each boat was upgraded, the M45 from the US was upgraded first and this replaced the gun on the first CEAFAR frigate, that gun then was upgraded for the next upgraded frigate and so on.

So there is still one spare gun.

Cheers

It either is, or is to be, installed at WHGR

 

[MickB]

Noted HMAS Ararat listed above and got me curious. We all know the ACPBs spend a large amount of time in the near north.
Doe's anyone know the most distant deployment for a ACPB and how long it stayed on station.

 

[ASSAIL]

Noted HMAS Ararat listed above and got me curious. We all know the ACPBs spend a large amount of time in the near north.
Doe's anyone know the most distant deployment for a ACPB and how long it stayed on station.

The link provided states that HMAS Ararat will join others in “SE Asia”.
ACPBs have deployed as far as Singapore in the past so I see nothing exceptional about this latest news.
They will be exercising and showing the flag so “staying on station” for some kind of surveillance patrol is not a consideration.

 

[spoz]

I don’t know about the Armidales, but at least one Fremantle got to Hong Kong in the 80s; and I’m pretty sure they got at least as far as Fiji in the other direction; and possibly to the Marshall Islands.

 

[alexsa]

I don’t know about the Armidales, but at least one Fremantle got to Hong Kong in the 80s; and I’m pretty sure they got at least as far as Fiji in the other direction; and possibly to the Marshall Islands.

Dubbo went to Vanuatu and Micronesia (escorting a Pacific Class PB to its new owner). .... then we went to Guam .... so yep, they got about.

 

[Calculus]

Posted this on the RCN thread as well, but this should be of equal interest to Australia - an excellent description of the T26 propulsion system: Powering the stealthy submarine hunter – Type 26 frigate propulsion system in focus | Save the Royal Navy

Apparently, you will be happy to note, Australia is getting 12 ships now, and not the 9 everyone was expecting (see under the heading "Happy motoring", about half way into the article). Would be great if it was true, but obviously an editorial error. Or, maybe that includes 3 for the RNZN!