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Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by icelord, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. Redlands18

    Redlands18 Active Member

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    I could see a joint RN/RAN TF happening and i don't think anyone on here would be too upset to see the QE sail through Sydney Heads afterwards
     
  2. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Off course, sold to the RAN and it would make Spaz very happy!
     
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  3. hauritz

    hauritz Well-Known Member

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    I think this will be a very close competition and I wouldn't be surprised no matter who comes out on top. I am reminded a little bit about the SEA 1000 competition in which everybody assumed that the Soryo design was going to win right up until it didn't.

    Could go the same way with the F-5000.
     
  4. alexsa

    alexsa Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Agree as there appears to no bad options in the contenders form both the vessel capability and the proposed industry packages. But, like others, I refuse to predict the outcome.
     
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  5. t68

    t68 Well-Known Member

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    I think it would make a lot of people happy
     
  6. BPFP

    BPFP New Member

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    SBS suggesting that Cabinet's national security committee will meet and decide tonight, in which case you would presume an announcement by no later than Friday.

    Frigate race inches close to finish line
     
  7. StingrayOZ

    StingrayOZ Well-Known Member

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    I think Perth is a given, I think Boris mentioned as much. Sydney would be nice. It is always nice to see big ships in the harbor. It's been a long time between UK carrier visits to Sydney.

    The sea5000 decision has to be imminent. All are viable contenders, I would be surprised if Australia probably has a lot of information about the 3 very good options. That the end result features of all three may be looked at being in-cooperated into the winning design. Its a tough decision because all 3 have strengths.
     
  8. Jezza

    Jezza Member

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  9. Milne Bay

    Milne Bay Active Member

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    Australia is very very keen to develop a free trade agreement with the UK.
    Selection of the Type 26 could be a part of a much wider agenda.
    MB
     
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  10. weegee

    weegee Member

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    Hi Guys just changing the convo a little.
    Rimpac does anyone know what we're sending? I know Adelaide is going and I assume Hobart is going too?
    Could this be the first real time a LHD (carrier) strike group could be used together? Obviously a perfect time to play with others in the region.
    i.e HMAS Adelaide
    HMAS Hobart
    2 X Anzac's?
    1 X Collins?
    1 X Success?

    Just wondering as the only real commitment to a ship that I have seen is HMAS Adelaide.
     
  11. matt00773

    matt00773 Member

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    Indeed, this seems to have been discussed in a recent meeting between UK and Aus PMs:

    PM meeting with Prime Minister Turnbull: 21 April 2018

    "They confirmed their shared ambition to form a new bilateral UK-Australia Free Trade Agreement after leaving the EU."

    "Acknowledging that the two countries already enjoy a close defence relationship, the Prime Minister welcomed increased cooperation on defence and security, including on equipment programmes and noted the merits of the Type 26 frigate and its anti-submarine warfare capability."
     
  12. toryu

    toryu Member

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    I believe it's Adelaide, Success, Melbourne, Toowoomba and Rankin. Looked everywhere for the info a while back and eventually skimmed it from the Defence Parliamentary Program 2018. It makes sense as all four surface vessels are currently creeping across the south pacific, engaged in Indo-Pacific Endeavour 18.
     
  13. KiwiRob

    KiwiRob Active Member

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  14. Todjaeger

    Todjaeger Potstirrer

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    I would hardly hold up the CVF build programme as a demonstration of build process that would be applicable to any RAN orders. For one thing, there were changes to the CVF plans made after construction of the QE started going from a CTOL to a STOVL design. Secondly, the carriers were/are (PoW has been floated out but is not commissioned yet) built in a UK yard, which means the UK yard workers are building up experience which can enable latter versions of the same design to progress a little faster.

    Any such experience would not transfer to an Australian yard, and ships for the RAN are not going to be built in the UK, even if an Australian version of the Type 26 were to be selected. As a side note, it is virtually certain that the fitout for Australian and British Type 26 frigates are going to be different, given what the specified RAN systems are to be, and what the RN typically uses. This in turn means that experience gained with the British version of the Type 26 fitout would not include the RAN specified systems unless the British were also using them.
     
  15. Meriv90

    Meriv90 Member

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    when the choice will be made, will the documents be public? as other said it is quite the difficult decision, the reasoning behind it should be really interesting.
     
  16. ASSAIL

    ASSAIL Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Fir
    First of Class is always going to be a relatively slow build no matter which ship is chosen and the reason why the RAN has labelled it "prototype"
    The only caveat to that would be that workers and supervisors familiar with Navantia design philosophy could possibly be more productive on the prototype if F5000 was selected. If the government rates risk has a high priority this could be a factor favouring the Spaniard.
    However, that advantage won't last past the first two or three ships.
     
  17. swerve

    swerve Super Moderator

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    Nope.

    The ships were planned to be STOVL, with the possibility of future conversion to CTOL. Construction of QE began in 2009 to a STOVL design. In 2010 Liam Fox, the new Conservative Minister of Defence, one of the worst tossers in Parliament (I wonder what he's got on people, to keep getting nominated for a safe seat & getting ministerial jobs: he was once notorious for having overclaimed & been forced to pay back more expenses than any of his Shadow Cabinet colleagues) ordered them to be built as CTOL, placed an order for one set of EMALS & matching arresting gear, & had the F-35B order changed to F-35C.

    While re-design was being done, QE continued in build to the original plans.

    After 18 months Fox was sacked as MoD for a very dubious friendship with a lobbyist*. The new MoD looked at the cost of Fox's decision (taken before any costings, estimates of delays, etc. - both of which turned out to be a few times what Fox had allowed for), & flinched, & it was reversed.

    So we went back to STOVL. The F-35Cs, EMALS parts, etc. with our name on went to the USN. I think Fox's Folly cost us between £100 & £200 million, but luckily not much delay on the ships.

    The build process would have been fine if the original build plans had been stuck to throughout. The most expensive political meddling wasn't Fox's Folly but Gordon 'Prudent' Brown slowing down building to save money in the short term, causing a big increase in total cost.

    *Adam Werrity - a close personal friend who he'd met when Werrity was a student & Fox was an MP. Werrity seems to have built his career around privileged access granted to him by Fox. He lived rent-free in Fox's taxpayer-subsidised London flat in the early 2000s, accompanied Fox on official visits abroad (including in meetings with foreign government ministers), shared hotel rooms with Fox, etc. & had been allowed into the MoD building many times & into meetings despite having no security clearance.
     
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  18. weegee

    weegee Member

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    I thought Hobart was going? Ithought I read somewhere she was staying on after to fully test out her systems at the missile Range off Hawaii.
     
  19. Redlands18

    Redlands18 Active Member

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    She goes to San Diego late this year for Aegis Qualification i believe, that may be what you heard about.
     
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  20. Todjaeger

    Todjaeger Potstirrer

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    Ah, my mistake then. I had been under the impression that construction had been to the CTOL design initially and not the original STOVL design and that in addition to the wasted funding, it had cost some additional time for construction and redesign, beyond what would normally be expected in a fist of class vessel.

    I am aware that first of class vessels typically take longer due to there being a learning curve with the construction of a new class. The area I have issues with the logic behind some of the claims which have been made about the Type 26 is that due to construction underway in the UK by BAE for the RN, that the Type 26 has been able to be "de-risked" and/or the construction time will be lessened for Type 26 frigates built in yards outside the UK, and to different configurations from those ordered by the RN.

    I understand how later ships of the same class, ordered from the same yard, can be constructed in a shorter period of time, and at a lower unit cost because of the experience, supply chains and non-recurring costs have been built up and paid for. What I do not understand, is how or why experiences gained by BAE shipyard workers in the UK in fitting both 24 Mk 41 and 48 Sea Ceptor VLS cells in the Type 26 frigates for the RN would provide any edge to Australian shipyard workers in Osborne if they were to be working on fitting 32 Mk 41 VLS cells into a Type 26 frigate for the RAN. I would have the same question for any other differences in kit where there was a difference in weight, space/volume, power, cooling, emissions or control systems required.