Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Stampede]

Perth had some work done (I read it was around December 2016). Arunta is the first to undergo the full mid life upgrade which includes more powerful diesels, hopefully a more powerful GT, upgraded air-conditioning as well as other changes.


BAE Systems prepares for Anzac midlife upgrade, as eighth ship completes ASMD

The ANZAC class for ships of their size are a most impressive vessel.
The ASMD upgrade maintains there relevance for many of today's threats and they will continue to provide good service, enhanced by the future mid life upgrade.
They will never be an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, but with their relative young age and constant upgrades they should provide good service for the immediate years ahead, and maybe provide an option if circumstances demand in having their service life prolonged.
At least some will be around for another decade.


Regards S

 

[Jack Wyatt]

The ANZAC class for ships of their size are a most impressive vessel.
The ASMD upgrade maintains there relevance for many of today's threats and they will continue to provide good service, enhanced by the future mid life upgrade.
They will never be an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, but with their relative young age and constant upgrades they should provide good service for the immediate years ahead, and maybe provide an option if circumstances demand in having their service life prolonged.
At least some will be around for another decade.


Regards S

I agree with what you have written. There is a great photo of Perth and Arunta on the hardstand at Henderson undergoing the mid life upgrades. It is in the latest edition of Aust Warships. What was of most interest was the information that 5 of the class were at Henderson at the same time. I believe in addition to the two mentioned, Toowoomba and Ballarat were undergoing maintenance while Warramunga had arrived to replace its Romeo.

For their size, what current frigate of comparable size offers the same capability?

 

[spoz]

ANZAC hersellf is 24 years old, having been launched in 1994; that’s getting long in the tooth for a frigate and is of course why there is the push to get construction of the first Sea5000 ship going ASP. While she can be kept going for a few more years, much beyond 30 will become very difficult. Even the youngest is 14, so Perth can realistically only be expected to be really viable until the mid 2030s.

 

[ASSAIL]

ANZAC hersellf is 24 years old, having been launched in 1994; that’s getting long in the tooth for a frigate and is of course why there is the push to get construction of the first Sea5000 ship going ASP. While she can be kept going for a few more years, much beyond 30 will become very difficult. Even the youngest is 14, so Perth can realistically only be expected to be really viable until the mid 2030s.

Wash your mouth! For gawds sake don't let the Kiwis hear you say that theirs are ships #2&3

 

[ASSAIL]

I've just attended the first public meeting showcasing the proposed redevelopment of Larrakeyah here in Darwin.
There is a design completed for a 250 mtr wharf on the outside of the rock wall protecting the Naval Base and I'm sorry to say they could not have picked a worse location in Darwin Harbour.
The proposal is built in an area where the strongest tidal streams run in the harbour, up to 4.5 kts at the top of the springs, that's crazy! To make it worse the area experiences large swells during the wet season, bad enough to prevent my ships running past the base from October until March.
I spoke with the designers, KBR, and queried the placement but was told superciliously that they had completed the studies and that the wharf was designed for fleet units and that the OPvs would not use it because of these factors!

Be prepared folks for some exciting alongsides and lots of damage when this is finally in use.

 

[ngatimozart]

Wash your mouth! For gawds sake don't let the Kiwis hear you say that theirs are ships #2&3

 

[StevoJH]

For their size, what current frigate of comparable size offers the same capability?

Possibly the Type 23's that have been upgraded with Sea Ceptor?

- The Sea Ceptor doesn't have the range of ESSM, but because it doesn't require illuminators more could possibly be in the air at once?
- Artisan presumably doesn't match up to CEA FAR, but some of them have TAS which the ANZAC's don't.

 

[Jack Wyatt]

Possibly the Type 23's that have been upgraded with Sea Ceptor?

- The Sea Ceptor doesn't have the range of ESSM, but because it doesn't require illuminators more could possibly be in the air at once?
- Artisan presumably doesn't match up to CEA FAR, but some of them have TAS which the ANZAC's don't.

My comment was in relation to the ASMD upgrade and CEAFAR. Specifically, the capability to deal with saturation missile attacks. I don't like the overly patriotic tone of the attachment but the attachment is quite informative. The next iteration of CEAFAR to be linked with SAAB 9LV tactical interface and AEGIS CMS on the future frigates. .


Anzac ships field cutting-edge defences

 

[StingrayOZ]

I thought with the new radar and the new CWI it Anzac was capable of sending something like 16 or 32 guided missile. Given that both the Anzac and the Type 23 only carry a max of 32 missiles, seems like it is a fairly academic point.

Type 23 is significantly larger. Isn't it something like 40% larger in displacement? They and the Canadian frigates were just bigger, and Australia should have built ships of that size.

The ANZAC's will fill in until sea5000 are operational. They aren't heavy hitters, but they are capable. Who ever gets them after we upgrade will be getting a decent ship.

 

[John Fedup]

ANZAC hersellf is 24 years old, having been launched in 1994; that’s getting long in the tooth for a frigate and is of course why there is the push to get construction of the first Sea5000 ship going ASP. While she can be kept going for a few more years, much beyond 30 will become very difficult. Even the youngest is 14, so Perth can realistically only be expected to be really viable until the mid 2030s.

HMCS Halifax was launched in 1988, commsioned into the RCN in 1992. Its CSC replacement (design winner still not selected yet) will be hard pressed for a 2025 launch let alone commissionin thus requiring our frigates to remain in service for a minimum of 35 years.

 

[StevoJH]

I thought with the new radar and the new CWI it Anzac was capable of sending something like 16 or 32 guided missile. Given that both the Anzac and the Type 23 only carry a max of 32 missiles, seems like it is a fairly academic point.

Type 23 is significantly larger. Isn't it something like 40% larger in displacement? They and the Canadian frigates were just bigger, and Australia should have built ships of that size.

The ANZAC's will fill in until sea5000 are operational. They aren't heavy hitters, but they are capable. Who ever gets them after we upgrade will be getting a decent ship.

I didn't realise the Type 23's were so much larger (36% by displacement), and considering they were only expected to serve for 15 years, who knows what sort of condition they are in structurally.....

The ANZAC's have been worked fairly hard haven't they? They will be quite old by the time the RAN is done with them, not sure they'd be cost effective enough to be sold on the second hand market. Not to mention any issues with US equipment aboard them sold to us under FMS legislation.

 

[Pusser01]

Does anyone know when is the expected completion time for the HMAS Perth CEAFAR2 upgrade? Can't wait to read something on how well the CEAFAR2 actually perform and what additional capabilities it brings to the FFH. I might swing past Henderson one of these days to see if I can spot it from afar

Perth has finished her LOTAP, but now is in mothballs ashore for the next approx. 12-18 moths until her turn as the 3rd vessel in the AMCAP cycle. Arunta is due back in the water around August to start 6-9 months alongside completion of her AMCAP. Anzac will then start her AMCAP up on the slip after Arunta floats off. Have heard the reason for the mothballing of Perth is due to shortage of engineering staff. Cheers

 

[Pusser01]

I've just attended the first public meeting showcasing the proposed redevelopment of Larrakeyah here in Darwin.
There is a design completed for a 250 mtr wharf on the outside of the rock wall protecting the Naval Base and I'm sorry to say they could not have picked a worse location in Darwin Harbour.
The proposal is built in an area where the strongest tidal streams run in the harbour, up to 4.5 kts at the top of the springs, that's crazy! To make it worse the area experiences large swells during the wet season, bad enough to prevent my ships running past the base from October until March.
I spoke with the designers, KBR, and queried the placement but was told superciliously that they had completed the studies and that the wharf was designed for fleet units and that the OPvs would not use it because of these factors!

Be prepared folks for some exciting alongsides and lots of damage when this is finally in use.

Gday Assail, as you are a local with a lot of experience up there, I was wondering where you think would be a suitable place to build a new wharf for Naval use in Darwin harbour? I can't think of too many places on the north shore that would be available. Cheers

 

[StingrayOZ]

I don't think they have been worked as hard as the FFG's and they found willing buyers. Not sure if there will be a public statement ruling them being transferred to someone.

They may not have long 2nd careers, but might be useful a force stepping up to something more capable and wanting to familiarize themselves something of that type (perhaps coming from Soviet or Russian gear). There was talk about handing them off to Indonesia or another regional "friendly". As a frigate, they are quite capable. Given a deteriorating security situation it would be worthwhile to keep to in mothballs as they are decomissioned, just in case the RAN or someone else needs something. This won't be hard to do because as ships enter the water they can just space out the complete scrapping.

Type 23 was good sized ship. I feel less enthused with the type 26 and type 31 combination.

The Type 31 and say Australia's new OPV. I'm not sure how useful an upgunned OPV will be, they fit into the Corvette space and the limitations. It will be interesting to see what sort of sensor fit out the OPV's will get. I see it far more likely they will be up sensored than upgunned.

For a Australia we will want a larger more capable ship with range. Building ships faster is problematic. Although with OPV work, things could be managed if we needed to in an actual regional conflict situation.

 

[MickB]

I don't think they have been worked as hard as the FFG's and they found willing buyers. Not sure if there will be a public statement ruling them being transferred to someone.

They may not have long 2nd careers, but might be useful a force stepping up to something more capable and wanting to familiarize themselves something of that type (perhaps coming from Soviet or Russian gear). There was talk about handing them off to Indonesia or another regional "friendly". As a frigate, they are quite capable. Given a deteriorating security situation it would be worthwhile to keep to in mothballs as they are decomissioned, just in case the RAN or someone else needs something. This won't be hard to do because as ships enter the water they can just space out the complete scrapping.

Type 23 was good sized ship. I feel less enthused with the type 26 and type 31 combination.

The Type 31 and say Australia's new OPV. I'm not sure how useful an upgunned OPV will be, they fit into the Corvette space and the limitations. It will be interesting to see what sort of sensor fit out the OPV's will get. I see it far more likely they will be up sensored than upgunned.

For a Australia we will want a larger more capable ship with range. Building ships faster is problematic. Although with OPV work, things could be managed if we needed to in an actual regional conflict situation.

I would agree with mothballing some Anzacs as attrition replacements in case of conflict.
Another idea would be to retain the the ones in best condition in reduced roles. Eg: If you change from a GP Frigate to that of an escort for the Phat Ships (freeing the Future Frigates for other roles) you could decommision/remove the gas turbines and 5 inch gun and perhaps some other equipment.
This would lead to a cost saving in maintanece and crewing.

But as always the money has to come from somewhere.

I would point out that I assume the escorting force in this example would include either AWDs or FFs as a matter of course.
I mean the reduced Anzac to operate as a suplement not a total replacement

 

[ASSAIL]

Gday Assail, as you are a local with a lot of experience up there, I was wondering where you think would be a suitable place to build a new wharf for Naval use in Darwin harbour? I can't think of too many places on the north shore that would be available. Cheers

The logical place would be to extend a finger wharf from the land side of the synchro lift 250 mtrs along the 5 mtr drop of parallel with the Esplanade in front of Doctors Gully.
This is deep enough for the majors on all tides and has a much reduced tidal flow, it's also protected from the wet season NW swell.
If there were concerns about depth it could even be angled further out into the harbour, the same protections apply.
Where they have sited it is just plain dumb and would need some compelling reason to justify it, reasons that are unknown to me.

 

[ASSAIL]

My comment was in relation to the ASMD upgrade and CEAFAR. Specifically, the capability to deal with saturation missile attacks. I don't like the overly patriotic tone of the attachment but the attachment is quite informative. The next iteration of CEAFAR to be linked with SAAB 9LV tactical interface and AEGIS CMS on the future frigates. .


Anzac ships field cutting-edge defences

It's my understanding that CEAFAR in its current form can handle multiple targets as it can provide RF illumination for ESSM.
CEAFAR L will increase detection ranges and once ESSM Blk II is available they are will have independent terminal guidance so the capability will be further enhanced.

 

[Jack Wyatt]

It's my understanding that CEAFAR in its current form can handle multiple targets as it can provide RF illumination for ESSM.
CEAFAR L will increase detection ranges and once ESSM Blk II is available they are will have independent terminal guidance so the capability will be further enhanced.

Thanks Assail for the information.

 

[Stampede]

The logical place would be to extend a finger wharf from the land side of the synchro lift 250 mtrs along the 5 mtr drop of parallel with the Esplanade in front of Doctors Gully.
This is deep enough for the majors on all tides and has a much reduced tidal flow, it's also protected from the wet season NW swell.
If there were concerns about depth it could even be angled further out into the harbour, the same protections apply.
Where they have sited it is just plain dumb and would need some compelling reason to justify it, reasons that are unknown to me.

Hi Assail

You have just answered the question I was about to ask re Wharf location ( Thanks Pusser01 )
Is this new wharf to be used solely for defence?

Not being familiar with Darwin, I had a look on Google Maps and interestingly there appears to be an LHD tied up at a near by wharf, which I think is called Stokes Hill Wharf.
It appears to be a French Mistral class LHD, Can you confirm seeing said ship in those waters.
I would imagine this location is the current wharf for the Canberra class to dock when in Darwin.

All the best up North

Regards S

 

[zhaktronz]

Hi Assail

You have just answered the question I was about to ask re Wharf location ( Thanks Pusser01 )
Is this new wharf to be used solely for defence?

Not being familiar with Darwin, I had a look on Google Maps and interestingly there appears to be an LHD tied up at a near by wharf, which I think is called Stokes Hill Wharf.
It appears to be a French Mistral class LHD, Can you confirm seeing said ship in those waters.
I would imagine this location is the current wharf for the Canberra class to dock when in Darwin.

All the best up North

Regards S

The LHD visible on google maps is a French Mistral class. Directly ahead of it is a french Lafayette class frigate and I think a pre-ASMD ANZAC class.