iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Is there the political will in this country for heavily armed combatants to protect our local waters? What's the cost?
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
If the threat envelope increases enough from drones, they may not have much choice in the matter.
OPV’s and Patrol Boats don’t need to have NSM or ESSM, but they will probably need some increased level of overmatch and enhanced self defense over what they have now.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Would the Strales/Dart system fit on the Arafuras? They would have to sacrifice the flight deck for SeaRam. However, if a decision was made to continue production what would be involved in tweaking the design to fit it in? They're not reinventing the wheel like we do with so much defence equipment.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
I just hope they put guns on them.
I would think that Ukraine has shown that low-cost drones, affordable missiles, drone defense systems (and nuclear subs) are the best way forward. To that end, we should build & protect our own drone, drone defense and missile development and manufacturing industry here.
I wonder if Australia should be looking at some sort of large network drone detection system similar to what the Ukrainians were doing with mobile phones. Something 20,000 low cost, mesh networked phones and solar panels covering the entire northern coastline from Gladstone QLD to Carnarvon WA, plus surrounding important infrastructure (ports, airports, water & power etc) and defense sites would be something that would cost less than one submarine.
I worry that the last 5 years have shown, large multi billion dollar ships just become multibillion-dollar targets.
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3 to 6 are without a main gun until post production upgrades, so likely 2029.
Which sort of main gun could the RAN look at for these ships ,e.g. elevation comparisons would they be a consideration for defence against drones?
What has happened to the 25mm guns from the Armidales? Please don't tell me that they have been buried!
Tas
Bofors Mk 3 57mm was on show at the conferences prior to 2026. Model shown in 2026 now has the Bofors Mk 4 40mm, alot less weight.
Plenty of other options though… Something like the mpls from naval group might be more versatile.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
The way the world is going I would think 57mm or 76mm (if possible) with smart ammunition plus at least something like SeaRam at a bare minimum. Because the Arafuras will essentially be operating in our littorial environment they shouldn't need NSM or ESSM as that capability should be under the umbrella of coastal defence from HIMARS if the powers that be get their act together. Any further out will require a Tier 1 or Tier 2 combatant.
The Darussalam class has a 57mm but those ships have less containers, no heavy lift cranes, smaller rhibs and a smaller bridge and is probably 25-50 tons lighter than the Arafura class. I think the 40mm is probably the frontrunner atm, just over a 1/3 of the weight of the 57mm.
Whatever gun they get should be something already in the logistics supply chain if at all possible.
Better to get something “good enough” then to aim for perfect and end up with nothing.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The 25mm is just not up to speed in the current environment.
76mm Sovreponte can handle dart ammo, and is half the weight of a Bofors 57mm, but only carries 76 ready rounds (and no simple way to reload mid action) Possibly an acceptable arrangement for an OPV ??
RAN has decided against integrating the 25mm Typhoon guns on any further Arafuras after vessels 1 and 2.
Why? Most likely cost cutting. But the materiel state of the remaining systems (most are 25 or so years old…) or the availability of engineering resources to complete the integration could also be potential issues.
Putting all their eggs into some future system (some other medium calibre gun system) seems like an outlier as far as upgrades go, given the way things have gone with this class...
A flex mounted 12.7mm gun or two seems to be all they will get for the forseeable future…
Absolutely ridiculous but there you go. RAN has performed “extensive” threat assessments for the class afterall, so everything should be fine the way it is…
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Pardon the French, but that's b***** ridiculous! Is it a warship or a pleasure craft with an outboard motor towing a skier at Moomba!RAN has decided against integrating the 25mm Typhoon guns on any further Arafuras after vessels 1 and 2.
Why? Most likely cost cutting. But the materiel state of the remaining systems (most are 25 or so years old…) or the availability of engineering resources to complete the integration could also be potential issues.
Putting all their eggs into some future system (some other medium calibre gun system) seems like an outlier as far as upgrades go, given the way things have gone with this class...
A flex mounted 12.7mm gun or two seems to be all they will get for the forseeable future…
Absolutely ridiculous but there you go. RAN has performed “extensive” threat assessments for the class afterall, so everything should be fine the way it is…
Buy the b***** 40mm Bofors and be done with it. What a pack of b***** idiots in charge of defence!!
Sorry, rant over.
Hmmmm.... trying to think of what adjectives you might mean:
- Boorish
- Backward
- Blundering
- Bizarre
- Baffling
I've got it...Bankrupt !
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
I was trying to be polite but it didn't work.
The thing is there is only so much capability you can add to a cheap, limited platform before it is no longer cheap, but still limited.
When the OPVs were first proposed I was pushing the line that we should be going for corvettes or light frigates, and an ideal world, GP frigates. The line back then was that we needed constablary vessels, not warships. I pointed out that the RAN had been trying to get small warships since the 1960s to replace the reserve WWII built covettes and frigates, but had consistantly failed.
We are finally getting GPFs and high end ASW FFGs, to support our DDGs. There will be uncrewed assets as well, though likely not the large ones first anticipated, they will still be better armed and more survivable than the OPVs.
I suspect the OPVs with be primarily used as constulary, training and experimental assets.
When the OPVs were first proposed I was pushing the line that we should be going for corvettes or light frigates, and an ideal world, GP frigates. The line back then was that we needed constablary vessels, not warships. I pointed out that the RAN had been trying to get small warships since the 1960s to replace the reserve WWII built covettes and frigates, but had consistantly failed.
We are finally getting GPFs and high end ASW FFGs, to support our DDGs. There will be uncrewed assets as well, though likely not the large ones first anticipated, they will still be better armed and more survivable than the OPVs.
I suspect the OPVs with be primarily used as constulary, training and experimental assets.