Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
IIRC when Canada was considering buying SSNs in the late 80s, those would have been LEU fueled (Rubis class). Some pros and cons to each approach obviously, but bottom line is that HEU vs LEU should not be a deciding factor.
LEU was only considered for the proposed SSN fleet because the USN opposed SSNs for Canada. Canada's finances after the 1987 economic downturn and various scandals with the Mulroney government killed the idea. One scandal terminated the Canadian $1,000 bill....given inflation since then, it would be useful today. The largest bill here is $100...covers the cost of 60 cans of beer! :(
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
No one knows what the Attack Class would have looked like had AUKUS not eventuated.

It was a program in such infancy it’s hard to judge what it would have looked like long term.

Yes many critics and maybe some justification ,but my belief is that the French do know how to build some good military kit

I’d speculate had we continued with the Attack class build , we would have eventually acquired an excellent SSK in good time ,numbers at a respectable price.
Some hiccups , price blowout and no doubt challenges ,
but still a good end result

A capability I would now have preferred to the current Plan A of AUKUS and its implications for a balanced ADF.

Anyway we cannot turn back the clock.

Back to the complexities of docking cycles of SSNs and all that implies

I’ve come to the conclusion that a SSN is a bridge too far for a nation of our size and expertise.
It also has a political element that I’m not comfortable with on many levels.

All up it’s a mistake



Cheers S


I
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I am pretty sure we would not consider buying French submarines after our experiences with the last effort.
I assume the anti-nuclear lobby at the time prevented consideration of a French SSN which in theory should have been more straight forward resulting in the questionable effort of modifying a SSN into a SSK.? Mind you France being France, a Australian-French collaboration on a a joint SSN build in Australia might not have fared any better than the Attack class SSK.
 

OldTex

Well-Known Member
I assume the anti-nuclear lobby at the time prevented consideration of a French SSN which in theory should have been more straight forward resulting in the questionable effort of modifying a SSN into a SSK.? Mind you France being France, a Australian-French collaboration on a a joint SSN build in Australia might not have fared any better than the Attack class SSK.
The anti-nuclear lobby prevented the consideration of any SSNs, hence the bastardised ATTACK class design. When that started to go pear shaped and analysts/commentators were pushing various other SSK designs, suddenly AUKUS happened so the push is now for SSNs.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
The anti-nuclear lobby prevented the consideration of any SSNs, hence the bastardised ATTACK class design. When that started to go pear shaped and analysts/commentators were pushing various other SSK designs, suddenly AUKUS happened so the push is now for SSNs.
Abbott wanted the Japanese boats, Turnbull didn't like that and went for bastardised Attack class, and here we are!
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Yes we might have done - had we agreed to build them in France.
French now helping Brazil with their first SSN, build in Brazil yard. So I do see French will be helping Australian on domestic SSN, if Australia choose Baracuda base SSN, instead conventional base Baracuda design.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
They'll get something post OPV, no doubt about it. Another patrol boat or auxiliary replacement perhaps.
I can't see how larger shipbuilding is undertaken without the civmec facility. It's not just the big shed, but also the fabrication workshops and other facilities that bring all the services together.

Trying to build an LCH on the CUF open hard stand feels like a plan designed for infinite pain.

I also don't see how a top secret nuclear submarine maintenance dock can be built directly infront of the civmec facility without significant security problems.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
A Naval News article about the infrastructure at Henderson Defence Precinct - the author is not optimistic about any CIVMEC involvement in future naval shipbuilding, despite their very suitable facilities.
I wonder if Austal will be prime, and outsource to civmec. Civmec has always seemed to me focused on the steel part of construction as complimentary to their business, less so about fitout and complete project ownership. Austal is over project management, but the workforce of actual steel hull construction is under Civmec contracted by Austal.

A cynical part of me thinks they were really interested in it to get a big new site and make sure no competitor came in and setup shop. They seem happy to take contracted block work, but not run the risks of entire project end to end. I don't think they want to give up their civil and industrial work to focus just on ships.

CIMVEC hall while next to the AMC CUF, isn't part of the AMC CUF AFAIK.


The problem is, however, that Austal’s existing facility at Henderson isn’t large enough to support the end-to-end construction of either the heavy landing craft or the new frigates and is one of the main reasons that the consolidation program is so critical to the timely delivery of capability for Defence.
1783740621530.png

The main fabrication hall at the AMC CUF is only 55x20m.

So I presume Civmec can be contracted to do blocks and block assembly, then pull out a semi-fitted hull which can then be completed in the water.
 
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