Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The RAN has done threat assessments that apply to drones - aerial, surface and sub surface. There is nothing whatsoever that is unique about drones; they are merely potentially multiple small and highly manoeuvrable, if mostly slow, versions of threats we have been dealing with for generations.
In theory. In practice, radars designed for perceived “modern” air warfare have proven repeatedly to defend poorly against low and slow threats.

Modern western navies and armed services broadly aren’t mounting Droneshield and Echodyne type radars on their “Tier 1” platforms for no reason.

Our defensive measures against swarm threats are also inadequate, as shown - if nothing else, by the RAN seeking counter-UAS ammunition natures, albeit in only one known calibre at present - 127mm…

We’re not the only ones thinking about such scenarios. Hopefully the RAN is…



Edit: co-incidentally that 5 inch counter-UAS project for RAN was quietly awarded to NIOA Australia in December 2025, but no details released yet.


NIOA of interest having a long standing local rep agreement with Diehl Defence…

 
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Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Finally some movement on the Cairns Marine Precinct.


Some new information on the Cairncross Dockyard also.


Site Capabilities
  • Large capacity graving dock: with Lift-in/Lift-out Gate (** Gate installation Q4 2026)
  • 1200T Crane for LILO dock gate and vessels**
  • 100m x 24m x 12,000T max total lift capacity shiplift at E of site, expandable. RORO capability** (operational 2028/2029)
  • Quayline extensions to main wharf, breasting wharf, finger wharf**
  • Flexible covered workspaces on wharves and hardstands**
  • Note: Adjacent to Hamilton Turning Basin
  • Note: ** Planned Capabilities
+ (50mx50mx29m Dome over Dock(expandable to 150m) providing protected, scalable infrastructure for shipyard operations and all-weather construction.
 

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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Finally some movement on the Cairns Marine Precinct.


Some new information on the Cairncross Dockyard also.


Site Capabilities
  • Large capacity graving dock: with Lift-in/Lift-out Gate (** Gate installation Q4 2026)
  • 1200T Crane for LILO dock gate and vessels**
  • 100m x 24m x 12,000T max total lift capacity shiplift at E of site, expandable. RORO capability** (operational 2028/2029)
  • Quayline extensions to main wharf, breasting wharf, finger wharf**
  • Flexible covered workspaces on wharves and hardstands**
  • Note: Adjacent to Hamilton Turning Basin
  • Note: ** Planned Capabilities
+ (50mx50mx29m Dome over Dock(expandable to 150m) providing protected, scalable infrastructure for shipyard operations and all-weather construction.
Woah! A patrol boat with a main gun? Who are they planning this for????

:D
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
2029 maybe for a 40mm MG (post production upgrades…)
I won’t hold my breath, shall we say…

Options are just that. A 57mm “could” be put on it, but we all know they won’t be.

The last time RAN (in this time of supposed “great strategic peril”) did a “threat assessment” on it’s latest and greatest OPV, the required main gun system went from a new 40mm gunnery system firing fancy ammunition natures, to the in-service 25mm / Typhoon combo, firing standard 25x137mm ammunition that any old ASLAV in-service since the 1990’s could fire…

Now of course it has gone down to nothing at all for the final few ships…
 

Tbone

Active Member
Why don’t the just put a 40mm bofors on the front of the OPV? What is the long wait for? The ships are in the water and being built. I’m not sure why this can’t be actioned. Why they are at it pop the NSM on the back and add a mistral 3 launcher up front. Then they can defend and deter all grey zone vessels. Before anyone suggests they aren’t combat vessels is a war broke out they would be upgunned in a heartbeat. Using the firepower doesn’t detract from patrolling it just adds the usual tasks of escort vessel.
 

d-ron84

Active Member
Why don’t they just put a 40mm bofors on the front of the OPV? What is the long wait for? The ships are in the water and being built. I’m not sure why this can’t be actioned. Why they are at it pop the NSM on the back and add a mistral 3 launcher up front. Then they can defend and deter all grey zone vessels. Before anyone suggests they aren’t combat vessels is a war broke out they would be upgunned in a heartbeat. Using the firepower doesn’t detract from patrolling it just adds the usual tasks of escort vessel.
$$$
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
I won’t hold my breath, shall we say…

Options are just that. A 57mm “could” be put on it, but we all know they won’t be.

The last time RAN (in this time of supposed “great strategic peril”) did a “threat assessment” on it’s latest and greatest OPV, the required main gun system went from a new 40mm gunnery system firing fancy ammunition natures, to the in-service 25mm / Typhoon combo, firing standard 25x137mm ammunition that any old ASLAV in-service since the 1990’s could fire…

Now of course it has gone down to nothing at all for the final few ships…
Not sure a 57mm is viable anymore, display model has changed to Bofors Mk 4 40mm and the Darussalam class has less stuff on it and it’s like 20-30 tons lighter than the Arafura -no heavy cranes/rhibs, smaller bridge, less containers etc etc. Looks like Rheinmetall who recently acquired NVL has also changed the specs on the 5xOPV/Coast Guard 80 variants.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
The render is definitely AI generated, just looking at the roads and the OPV seeming to have WW2 style torpedo bulges on the hull. Apparently even the computer algorithms think the OPVs need something else up front.
That's what we need on our OPVs. A 127mmm up front, torpedo tubes, 8 cell Mk.41 quad packed with ESSM, Phalanx AND SeaRam, 2 x 30mm Close In Weapons Systems, a laser, and just for good measure, depth charges. Lol. Says Buzzard with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek!!!!!!!
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Why don’t the just put a 40mm bofors on the front of the OPV? What is the long wait for? The ships are in the water and being built. I’m not sure why this can’t be actioned. Why they are at it pop the NSM on the back and add a mistral 3 launcher up front. Then they can defend and deter all grey zone vessels. Before anyone suggests they aren’t combat vessels is a war broke out they would be upgunned in a heartbeat. Using the firepower doesn’t detract from patrolling it just adds the usual tasks of escort vessel.
Because it is just not that simple.

AFAIK the RAN has not had a 40 mm gun in service since the Fremantle-class PB's were decommissioned and the gun and mountings fitted were similar to ones used back in WWII or Korea, manually operated, etc. This means that a new gun would need to be selected and acquired, as well as an appropriate mounting. Work would need to be done to ensure that the mounting could be fitted to an appropriate site aboard the OPV, and that the structure was appropriate for the gun/mounting to operate and be fired. There would also need to be some work done to integrate whatever was selected into the shipboard CMS and electronics, esp. if the gun was to be operated remotely and/or be useful across a broader scope of roles like CUAS, CIWS, etc.

All of that requires not only money, but also time. Given how much more effective (not really) it would make the Arafura-class in a warfighting role, I would much rather see more resources like funding as well as technical expertise be allocated to bring the Hunter-class frigates into service as well as SEA 3000.

As for fitting Mistral 3... <le sigh>

Mistral 3 is not currently in Australian service and TBH it might never be. AFAIK there have been some MOU's signed to examine domestic production of Mistral 3, but no contracts signed for Australia to actually purchase any at this point. Before missiles could be usefully employed from the OPV's, there would need to be integration work done to tie the missiles, launcher and ship sensors together. There would also be the matter of where a Mistral 3 missile launcher could be fitted. The best answer I have been able to come up with would be if Australia adopted a dual gun/missile mounting Again, all of this would require both funding and time.

As for fitting NSM, again there is the question of where one would put it? There are places it could be fitted (like on the helipad) but doing so would likely compromise or perhaps even outright eliminate some of the OPV's planned capabilities. Issues of costs and time needed would also need to be addressed, including things like the per missile cost of Mistral 3 being ~USD$500k

Much of this could likely be done, but I would then have to ask, "why?"
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Why don’t the just put a 40mm bofors on the front of the OPV? What is the long wait for? The ships are in the water and being built. I’m not sure why this can’t be actioned. Why they are at it pop the NSM on the back and add a mistral 3 launcher up front. Then they can defend and deter all grey zone vessels. Before anyone suggests they aren’t combat vessels is a war broke out they would be upgunned in a heartbeat. Using the firepower doesn’t detract from patrolling it just adds the usual tasks of escort vessel.
If they are upgunned if a hot war broke out you would need trained crews on the weapon. You can't just plop a gun on the foredeck and expect it to be effective straight away. You need to drill the crews and that takes time. Better to do it in peacetime and be ready, rather than play catch up when everything goes pear shaped.
 

Richo99

Active Member
I could be wrong but i seem to recall a year or 2 back a significant order of sea mines. Haven't heard anything since. Any idea on how these were to be deployed? That big (I'm not a helicopter!) deck on Arafuras stern looks like it could be used in conjunction with the cube minelaying system...
 

Tbone

Active Member
I would presume if the OPV’s be given the task as a minelayer again they would need self defence weapons installed.., aka an anti air and surface gun/missiles.
 

Tbone

Active Member
Because it is just not that simple.

AFAIK the RAN has not had a 40 mm gun in service since the Fremantle-class PB's were decommissioned and the gun and mountings fitted were similar to ones used back in WWII or Korea, manually operated, etc. This means that a new gun would need to be selected and acquired, as well as an appropriate mounting. Work would need to be done to ensure that the mounting could be fitted to an appropriate site aboard the OPV, and that the structure was appropriate for the gun/mounting to operate and be fired. There would also need to be some work done to integrate whatever was selected into the shipboard CMS and electronics, esp. if the gun was to be operated remotely and/or be useful across a broader scope of roles like CUAS, CIWS, etc.

All of that requires not only money, but also time. Given how much more effective (not really) it would make the Arafura-class in a warfighting role, I would much rather see more resources like funding as well as technical expertise be allocated to bring the Hunter-class frigates into service as well as SEA 3000.

As for fitting Mistral 3... <le sigh>

Mistral 3 is not currently in Australian service and TBH it might never be. AFAIK there have been some MOU's signed to examine domestic production of Mistral 3, but no contracts signed for Australia to actually purchase any at this point. Before missiles could be usefully employed from the OPV's, there would need to be integration work done to tie the missiles, launcher and ship sensors together. There would also be the matter of where a Mistral 3 missile launcher could be fitted. The best answer I have been able to come up with would be if Australia adopted a dual gun/missile mounting Again, all of this would require both funding and time.

As for fitting NSM, again there is the question of where one would put it? There are places it could be fitted (like on the helipad) but doing so would likely compromise or perhaps even outright eliminate some of the OPV's planned capabilities. Issues of costs and time needed would also need to be addressed, including things like the per missile cost of Mistral 3 being ~USD$500k

Much of this could likely be done, but I would then have to ask, "why?"
I’m pretty sure it’s the navies job is to arm and deter at sea. Let’s be frank here, they have had more than enough time to figure out a weapon system and integrate it into this vessel. It’s the same with the LHD’s they should be looking at 30 or 40mm guns, small light weight air defective point guard weapons like the mister 3 or sea ram for all vessel like the Arafura class, LHD’s and new landing craft heavy.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The Arafuras are designed to accept a 40mm on the forward superstructure. Admittedly, it was supposed to be a Leonardo gun, which at the time it was selected was I understand only a “paper gun” which had not been through proof etc. However, the dry weights are very similar, 2300 versus 2100 kg or thereabouts and the footprint is almost the same. It would require integration into the SAAB system fitted to the ships but given the architectures involved, and the fact that the Bofor has already been integrated at least once into a Swedish combatant which also has a SAAB combat system it shouldn’t be that difficult. Unfortunately, costs of the two weapons does not seem to be publicly available, so it’s difficult to judge there; but the original Project budget did include money for a gun……
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Volks, you funny!!!!
I think we should be looking at this holistically, i.e. a non penetrating mount with a useful ordinance capable of anti surface and anti air fire against crewed and uncrewed threats. Ideally a facility of last ditch defence against incoming highspeed threats through putting up a wall of high velosity fragments.

Main armament for PBs, OPVs and auxillaries, secondary on MFUs.
 
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