Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The one outstanding feature of a Canadian winter.....no frigging insects!!!
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I think this is what you remember. I grew up with these in Tasmania.
Everything in Australia wants to eat, scratch or poison you. Even the kangaroos want to disembowel you, and don't get me started on the drop bears.
Come up to Queensland, it's SO much safer
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Correct Sammy. And it did hurt like ****! As to the naval one, any more news?
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Nah, you've got crocs!Come up to Queensland, it's SO much safer
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
I love drop bears. So cuddly until they rip your throats out!
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
So we're not sending a destroyer or heaven forbid an under armed frigate to the Middle East.
If the balloon goes up locally we're screwed.
We need to up arm FAST!
If the balloon goes up locally we're screwed.
We need to up arm FAST!
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
At least put Phalanx or something equivalent on all our main fleet units, NOW!
I think it was pointed out on this forum previously that the ANZACs are nowhere sufficiently equipped to operate in a threat environment of cruise missile and surface and aerial drone swarm attack. And we have previously declined the request to deploy for this and other reasons.
And also as has been made clear, we cannot simply just bolt a Phalanx onto an ANZAC
So, the only possible appropriate deployment would be one of the 2 available Hobarts IF 2 are actually available. (not sure which is undergoing upgrade presently)
Is that about right?
Sadly yes
We have two warships
Hobarts have just the one CIWS , so hopefully the incoming threat in a Hail Mary situation is within its arc of fire.
The 25mm is a CIWS against very limited threats only.
It’s a dated toy.
An upgrade to 30mm should of happened yesterday.
Something else would be better again.
I’m not critical so much of either major political party but rather the broad spread of media who don’t hold our politicians to account.
If Andrew Hastie or someone on the other side stood up and said to the public you need to know how it is . We have failed you. We have made poor decisions on defence. Own it. Articulate what’s needed. Sell it. Budget for it.
Many of us are doing it tough , but we would understand the need given the news and uncertainty of the world that defence needs funding.
Im no Trumpist, but we do need to start looking after ourselves.
Two ships is a wake-up call
Cheers S
downunderblue
Well-Known Member
I remember in Gulf War 1 watching the DDGs quickly getting two Phalanx's bolted on with I think an Army RBS crew attached. They just did it and ran with it because they had to.
I fail to see why a Hobart can't be quickly upgraded. The will and risk tolerance is just not there. The ANZACs yes are more vulnerable but have excellent radar. They could still add value.
Yes it would be unpredictable, but it all depends on your tolerance for risk and efforts to mitigate. There will always be residual risk, but does that stop us dead in the water? Again it all comes down to will.
I fail to see why a Hobart can't be quickly upgraded. The will and risk tolerance is just not there. The ANZACs yes are more vulnerable but have excellent radar. They could still add value.
Yes it would be unpredictable, but it all depends on your tolerance for risk and efforts to mitigate. There will always be residual risk, but does that stop us dead in the water? Again it all comes down to will.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Which Hobart-class DDG upgrade are you referring to? Are you talking about the idea of adding more Mk 15 Phalanx or SeaPhalanx CIWS, or the very comprehensive set of upgrades which include going from Aegis Baseline 8 to Baseline 9 as well as other system upgrades to things like shipboard interfaces, weapons integration and IIRC some changes to sensors. AFAIK one of the issue encountered with carrying out these needed upgrades is that the Hobart-class itself has had some space and weight/displacement limitations which have complicated the design of the upgrades.
If you are simply referring to the idea of adding another CIWS, I suspect the idea is simple in theory, but execution would be a little more complicated. Not only would there need to be space and topweight available to take another mounting somewhere (and real estate could be limited), potential mounting sites would need power, control and cooling available for the gun, as well as be sufficiently reinforced to handle both the mass of the mounting as well as forces exerted by firing the gun. Not to mention mounting sites would need to provide useful firing arcs. All of which is a bit more involved that simply just bolting another unit on. OTOH, if the Hobart-class was designed and built with additional potential mounting locations, things would be quite a bit easier. IIRC the Canberra-class LHD's have several such potential mounting sites available, but IIRC none have been routinely used.
d-ron84
Active Member
I just have to say that your thoughts and scepticism on the DDG combat system and weapons ability as well as tactics and SOPs in handle incoming threats, as well as your perceived limitations of Phalanx Block1B are a little bit unfounded.
and that's all I will say about that
Canberras have space for 3 CIWS.. presumably Phalanx or searam.
I wonder if the Canberra's might actually be the pick of the platform for this type of work if they were so fitted. They have long endurance capabilities. They can reload their CIWS at sea presumably for an entire deployment. Their aviation capability embarking SH60 or now Apaches could provide useful anti drone capability. They could deploy mine clearing equipment.
But there are still cruise and antishipping missiles about and aircraft, so they would still have to be escorted by something else. But if they had 8x quad packed ESSM BkII launchers....
I think Phalanx Block 1b are still highly important. Both land based and sea based versions seem to be working over time currently. Im not sure some of these drones are detectable much beyond 1B range much of the time, and given the complex often near civilian airspace, you might not be able to engage far out.
I wonder if the Canberra's might actually be the pick of the platform for this type of work if they were so fitted. They have long endurance capabilities. They can reload their CIWS at sea presumably for an entire deployment. Their aviation capability embarking SH60 or now Apaches could provide useful anti drone capability. They could deploy mine clearing equipment.
But there are still cruise and antishipping missiles about and aircraft, so they would still have to be escorted by something else. But if they had 8x quad packed ESSM BkII launchers....
I think Phalanx Block 1b are still highly important. Both land based and sea based versions seem to be working over time currently. Im not sure some of these drones are detectable much beyond 1B range much of the time, and given the complex often near civilian airspace, you might not be able to engage far out.
The RBS-70 crews were detached aboard HMAS Westralia and HMAS Success for GW1.
The engineering side of the story of adding Phalanx to the DDG’s can be found below. Suffice to say “just chuck stuff on” is fraught with all sorts of problems…
Occasional Paper 2: Operation DAMASK - HMA Ships BRISBANE and SYDNEY - Naval Historical Society of Australia
The following story was contributed by Hugh Hyland. Hugh worked for the variously named Defence departments for over 50 years until retiring in December 2015. He held numerous positions in
navyhistory.au
If you wanted to, you could change out the Phalanx in Hobart for SeaRAM very easily. Anything else would be more problematic.
Hobart herself is the ship currently in the Aegis block 10 upgrade. SFAIK there were no particular difficulties with it. My belief is that the design and development of the upgrade of the Raytheon ATI with which they commissioned to the SAAB one for commonality was probably the long pole in the scheduling.
Hobart herself is the ship currently in the Aegis block 10 upgrade. SFAIK there were no particular difficulties with it. My belief is that the design and development of the upgrade of the Raytheon ATI with which they commissioned to the SAAB one for commonality was probably the long pole in the scheduling.
They have space for about 40 Phalanx if you don’t care about using the flight deck…
However my understanding is that the engineering work to fit the Canberra Class LHD with Phalanx CIWS has not happened and RAN has decided not to pursue that option…
AEGIS Baseline 9. Hobart has only just entered the upgrade as of early-mid February 2026 and it is scheduled to run until 4th quarter 2026, assuming no issues.
Sea trials are then scheduled to take part for all of 2027.
She accordingly won’t be available to RAN until late 2027 at the earliest, probably early 2028 in reality.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
That's what I mentioned earlier. If the LHDs and replenishment ships have the real estate and detection and fire control systems we must fit suitable CWS systems asap. Tomorrow may be too late.