Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[spoz]

Not a fan of the PPA bridge; but because of the OOW situation. OOW should be up and walking around and in no way inhibited from doing that. He or she should be, out on the wings to check astern etc without depending on electronics; the human eye and brain will pick up things even the best electronics won’t.

CIC is where the command decisions are made and that can have the synthetic environment; bridge is where maneuvering and navigation is managed and you should not be seated, or worrying about anything other than the safety of maneuvering and navigation, when doing that. And the electronic aids to navigation should be cross checked from time to time, not totally relied on. That means getting up and using the pelorus and wing repeats amongst other things.

An aside on flag bins - yes they are always located adjacent to the bridge and not for any reason of emergency access. Flags in warships (and indeed, all ships if more so on warships) are in constant use. Apart from the statutory times when they must be displayed (entering and leaving harbour etc) much warship maneuvering when in company is done by flags, and that means they need to be readily accessible to those on the bridge. Even when using a radio to pass maneuvering instructions, it is done by nominating the flags concerned - so something like “Immediate execute corpen nine tack one eight. Golf desig alpha six. Stand by execute. Break. Execute to follow formation foxtrot”. That sort of thing.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Not a fan of the PPA bridge; but because of the OOW situation. OOW should be up and walking around and in no way inhibited from doing that. He or she should be, out on the wings to check astern etc without depending on electronics; the human eye and brain will pick up things even the best electronics won’t.

It's a bold design choice. Particularly on a ship as large as they are. It would seem to have plenty of blind spots I don't know enough about if they have electronic cameras or sensors covering those, but as you said, being able to eyeball something is pretty important, cameras and sensors break, or get painted over, or mist over or what not.

This kind of configuration imo might be more suitable for a OPV, but even then, it's pretty "cockpit". LCS freedom is kinda like this too.

In the efforts to reduce crew, I do wonder how much more reliant we become on remote sensing through cameras etc and issues that will bring in practice. Even if it works when its all nice and new, what happens after decades, and upgrades and compromises and unforeseen changes.

 

[the road runner]

BAE have a great video of Osborne naval Shipyard building blocks of the Hunter class Frigate
Looks like a very efficient way to build out future frigates
Edge beveling, Robotic welding, cutting steel that is numbered so it can be welded together ,Nieland pressing of steel.

 

[Morgo]

BAE have a great video of Osborne naval Shipyard building blocks of the Hunter class Frigate
Looks like a very efficient way to build out future frigates
Edge beveling, Robotic welding, cutting steel that is numbered so it can be welded together ,Nieland pressing of steel.

So let’s crank it up and maximise throughput!

6x Hunters + 6x DDGs with the mission bay replaced by 96 VLS ASAP!

 

[Reptilia]

BAE have a great video of Osborne naval Shipyard building blocks of the Hunter class Frigate
Looks like a very efficient way to build out future frigates
Edge beveling, Robotic welding, cutting steel that is numbered so it can be welded together ,Nieland pressing of steel.

Still to slow imo, would like to see further expansion.
-They need to extend the unit fabrication hall south(moving BlastOne) so the unit line and shell assembly can be lengthened (more units under construction + more robotic welders)

Then you can…
-Double the plate and profile cutting line.
-Extend the panel and micro panel line.
-Double Bending and Forming presses.
-Blast and Paint hall is already set to double.

Could also build another hall off the existing fabrication hall(east side) for unit storage or for basic fitout before entering block assembly hall.
-Should not have to build units elsewhere.

 

[the road runner]

Still to slow imo, would like to see further expansion.
-They need to extend the unit fabrication hall south(moving BlastOne) so the unit line and shell assembly can be lengthened (more units under construction + more robotic welders)

How would you build ships when you are extending the building?
This would slow down the production of the Hunter class by years

 

[seaspear]

Not a fan of the PPA bridge; but because of the OOW situation. OOW should be up and walking around and in no way inhibited from doing that. He or she should be, out on the wings to check astern etc without depending on electronics; the human eye and brain will pick up things even the best electronics won’t.

CIC is where the command decisions are made and that can have the synthetic environment; bridge is where maneuvering and navigation is managed and you should not be seated, or worrying about anything other than the safety of maneuvering and navigation, when doing that. And the electronic aids to navigation should be cross checked from time to time, not totally relied on. That means getting up and using the pelorus and wing repeats amongst other things.

An aside on flag bins - yes they are always located adjacent to the bridge and not for any reason of emergency access. Flags in warships (and indeed, all ships if more so on warships) are in constant use. Apart from the statutory times when they must be displayed (entering and leaving harbour etc) much warship maneuvering when in company is done by flags, and that means they need to be readily accessible to those on the bridge. Even when using a radio to pass maneuvering instructions, it is done by nominating the flags concerned - so something like “Immediate execute corpen nine tack one eight. Golf desig alpha six. Stand by execute. Break. Execute to follow formation foxtrot”. That sort of thing.

In regard to flag use ,I can understand their use for non electronic communication and radio silence but is it feasible for digital displays on sides of ships that can pass such information not subject to the wind,apart from the Aldis lamp

 

[Reptilia]

How would you build ships when you are extending the building?
This would slow down the production of the Hunter class by years

Extending the building south would have very little effect on the current operation until the south wall needs to come down. Would probably take a few weeks to link up the existing hall with the add on.
None of this is easy, quick or cheap but really the only option to accelerate production unless you build units elsewhere.

 

[Morgo]

Extending the building south would have very little effect on the current operation until the south wall needs to come down. Would probably take a few weeks to link up the existing hall with the add on.
None of this is easy, quick or cheap but really the only option to accelerate production unless you build units elsewhere.

Why are the Poms saying they can build them at a cadence of one every 18 months?

Do they just have bigger facilities so can have more being built contemporaneously?

 

[StevoJH]

Why are the Poms saying they can build them at a cadence of one every 18 months?

Do they just have bigger facilities so can have more being built contemporaneously?

Bigger facilities, more people and more experienced people.

They have two yards on the Clyde. One of which is being used for fitting out and possibly module production?

They have two ships fitting out and another 1 or 2 currently being assembled? They are probably going to run into problems in another couple of years if they continue at the current rate.

Type 83 doesn’t seem to be far enough along to commence as soon as Type 26 finishes up module production.

As an example, I’m fairly sure BAe employ more people just at their submarine yard in Barrow then BAe and ASC do in Adelaide combined.

 

[iambuzzard]

Bigger facilities, more people and more experienced people.

They have two yards on the Clyde. One of which is being used for fitting out and possibly module production?

They have two ships fitting out and another 1 or 2 currently being assembled? They are probably going to run into problems in another couple of years if they continue at the current rate.

Type 83 doesn’t seem to be far enough along to commence as soon as Type 26 finishes up module production.

I don't think they've even settled on a design for Type 83.

 

[StevoJH]

I don't think they've even settled on a design for Type 83.

Not that has been publically announced anyway.

So unless Type 83 is further along then announced BAe are going to need a further Type 26 order or an order for MRSS well before 2030.