Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

Stampede

Well-Known Member
This is the problem, a larger OPV type ship, even if it can fit a few weapons, is still pretty much an OPV.

It seems the MMPV90 is that Bulgaria is getting is more closely based on the K130 and the OPV90 was originally spawned out of the OPV designs. But I don't know how much overlap or differences there are between them on a fundamental design level. But they are different, and both different from the OPV80 we are currently building.

4x NSM IMO doesn't sound like a game changer. Some ESSM is nice, but they would be more like a defensive escort, escorting frigates and other more capable ships. Without layers, its still limited, particularly against modern high level threats.

China is a moving threat. They aren't a country that has just made a one off purchase of some neat kit, they will continually develop better and better system en masse. So you would ideally want the platform to have some growth potential. China isn't going away.

IMO light Corvettes/OPV's just don't shift the game further enough along IMO. Not against a threat like China. If we are replacing Anzacs, you would want something more capable than a Anzac, with the big advantage with say smaller crew so you can have more of them. Creating more platforms, you can create more career opportunities and grow the RAN. Going 1 for 1 doesn't create many new career opportunities.

I am not trying to stay platform agnostic. Just exploring the advantages and disadvantages of various ideas and concepts.
  • Are there planforms that can carry similar/more weapons and systems as an Anzac, but crewed by half as many people?
  • Or is there a platform that has a slightly larger crew size than the Arafura's, but can carry an Anzac type load out and endurance?

I think those are possible. That does change the game. But the RAN is looking more than just VLS loadouts on a platform.
The challenge is we realistically don't know the government's intent.
We just have an idea as to what we currently have in construction, their time tables for completion , plus some guesstimates as to time tables to acquire a new tier two vessel based on a wide variances of size and capability.

What did come out in the DSR is that Army will get both medium and heavy landing in reasonable numbers sooner rather than later.
A Good call.
These coastal / regional assets will at times need an escort.

A tier two vessel in appropriate numbers will be necessary for this and other roles.

What that looks like is speculative , but I'm guessing good vessel numbers and timely delivery will trump large armament fitout.

It will be smaller rather than bigger than much that has been discussed

That's my guess.


Cheers S
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
I don't think anybody is saying upgunned OPVs or corvettes are ideal. What it really boils down to is that if war breaks out you fight with whatever you have or whatever you could obtain in a reasonably short timeframe. Unfortunately for Australia that doesn't give you a whole lot of options.

You could dump the Arafuras and opt for a new class of GP frigates but if history is any guide you will probably not see anything in the water until the early 2030s.

Like it or not we are probably going to be stuck with the Arafura or an upgunned version of it simply because the clock has run down and we are out of options.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jumping from the current Armidale patrol boats to GP frigates is a huge jump. Crewing something ~20-30 crew and crewing something with 80-90 crew is huge.

Arafura has an estimated compliment of 40. Which is an achievable growth from say 30. They will have to learn new skills, but pipelines to deliver sailors at that type of crew capability are in place. But growing that to say 90 is a huge undertaking and will most likely require a massive consolidation of numbers and a reduction of promotion positions.

Upgunning Arafura will be an interesting prospect. Remember one, it has less powerful engines (16V1163M74R) than the preceding Armidale class, which is some 6 times smaller. Significantly less powerful than the engines fitted to Darussalam class. I imagine both engines will be flat out to get near that 20kt number which is thrown around, maybe a favorable tail wind, on glass smooth waters too. They won't be able to sustain that speed. The OPV80 has basically no space for weapons, that would be those opv90 designs. It doesn't have a hangar. The navy has already modified them so that not even the antishipping missiles can be fitted with out major rework of the entire design. We can't even fit the 40mm to the ship currently.

I imagine it would only happen to the ships yet to be built, so they can be fitted out from the get go with what is required for even a moderate upgunning. Otherwise we are tearing apart ships again.

Guess we will see.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
What is a corvette, a frigate or a destroyer? It is whatever the parent navy decides it is.

In Iran a destroyer is a new build light frigate of 1500ton, in Japan they call the Izumos destroyers. Russia's current corvettes are as big or bigger than many nations frigates.

Then we have patrol frigates, GP frigates, ASW frigates, air defence frigates. There are 1000 ton frigates and the Hunters are to be 10000 ton. Some have top speeds of 25kt, some can do as much as 39kt. Range is all over the place too.

All this talk about how many of what, what is and is not suitable, going around in circles, is pretty pointless.
 

ddxx

Well-Known Member
At least for me, when I use the term ‘Corvette’ I mean a small combatant design which is marketed and sold as a Corvette.

Relatively short ranged and low endurance with a relatively heavy weapons fit because you can’t get both on a small hull.

I don’t mean Corvette in terms of capacity of armament, but the design, size and purpose of the platform.

At a time where we should be aiming to dramatically increase both our presence and persistence throughout our vast region, the range and endurance of a Corvette would be a catastrophic choice.
 

Reptilia

Active Member
i hope in the review they don’t discount an overseas build, atleast until they sort some of the issues out In Australian shipbuilding

with an overseas build an minimal change to current shipbuilding programs
Have civmec stay on course and continue the Arafura OPV build, maybe 8 OPV only and use the same hull to build 4 MCM over another 4 OPV. Promise them the following jss build on top of a new dry dock.
Bae continue with the Hunter program but only build 6 instead of the 9 and promise them the following Hobart class replacement In the mid 2040s.
Once again, the type 83 would make sense under the bae flag, aukus and timeline with the first of class in the u.k.

The 15 billion going towards Hunter 7-9 redirected to 3 Hobarts built in Spain asap(6 billion) and 12 Mitsubishi Mogamis/but with ceafar(8-9 billion).
The Anzacs can all retire between 2034-2042, the 8x(150+ crew each, approx 1200 sailors) are retrained for the new 3xHobart(200+ crew each, approx. 600) and 12xMogami(90+ crew each, approx 1,100)

That is 6 Hobart, 6 Hunter, 12 Mogami(class tbd), 8 Arafura, 4 MCM, 2 JSS all by 2042 and maybe only an extra 1,000 sailors required over 15 years. 2040s, the Hobart clas replacement Osborne and maybe the canberra class replacement Henderson.

@Reptilia Stop with the fantasy fleet. We have no information on what will happen so stick to the known facts. Continue down this path you and anyone else will suffer the consequences.

Ngatimozart.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
At least for me, when I use the term ‘Corvette’ I mean a small combatant design which is marketed and sold as a Corvette.

Relatively short ranged and low endurance with a relatively heavy weapons fit because you can’t get both on a small hull.

I don’t mean Corvette in terms of capacity of armament, but the design, size and purpose of the platform.

At a time where we should be aiming to dramatically increase both our presence and persistence throughout our vast region, the range and endurance of a Corvette would be a catastrophic choice.
Your personal definition of a corvette is irrelevant. It is what the RAN will define it as, if goes down the corvette path, that is important. Those defence professionals on this forum, especially the RAN ones, have explained what a corvette is. It's the RAN CONOPS not the size, or whatever else, that determines if / what a RAN corvette is. It's not how big it is, but how you use it.
 

Perentie

New Member
Jumping from the current Armidale patrol boats to GP frigates is a huge jump. Crewing something ~20-30 crew and crewing something with 80-90 crew is huge.

Arafura has an estimated compliment of 40. Which is an achievable growth from say 30. They will have to learn new skills, but pipelines to deliver sailors at that type of crew capability are in place. But growing that to say 90 is a huge undertaking and will most likely require a massive consolidation of numbers and a reduction of promotion positions.

Upgunning Arafura will be an interesting prospect. Remember one, it has less powerful engines (16V1163M74R) than the preceding Armidale class, which is some 6 times smaller. Significantly less powerful than the engines fitted to Darussalam class. I imagine both engines will be flat out to get near that 20kt number which is thrown around, maybe a favorable tail wind, on glass smooth waters too. They won't be able to sustain that speed. The OPV80 has basically no space for weapons, that would be those opv90 designs. It doesn't have a hangar. The navy has already modified them so that not even the antishipping missiles can be fitted with out major rework of the entire design. We can't even fit the 40mm to the ship currently.

I imagine it would only happen to the ships yet to be built, so they can be fitted out from the get go with what is required for even a moderate upgunning. Otherwise we are tearing apart ships again.

Guess we will see.
The Armidales are only 16V4000M70 @ 2320kW each. The 16V1163M74R are rated at 4440kW each. (one engine is 4 litres per cylinder and the other is 11.63 litres per cylinder.)
 

Maranoa

Active Member
All the guesses about DSRs halting at six Arafuras are likely just that. Arafura's are still getting laid down according to budget notes papers reported in www.australiandefender.com.au last week with OPV 7 being laid down in the next few months (july to september) which confirms that a lot of cash has already been spent on the ship. In really bad news the budget papers say that OPV1 Arafura delayed again for about another six months (to third quarter 2023) before RAN even starts its acceptance process so acceptance and commissioning could be well into 2024. More delays to OPV2 which will be launched in a few months (quarter 3 2023), six months later than the last planned delayed launch date. Aussie Defender also cites offsets paperwork handed to journalists at DSR lockdown which shows that the Navy's proposed MTUAS buy has been 'rescoped' to free up funds for other things.
https://www.australiandefender.com.au/new/shop/accessallareas/intel/1 23 intel/230510opv delays/2305arafura delays.htm (paywalled)
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
All the guesses about DSRs halting at six Arafuras are likely just that. Arafura's are still getting laid down according to budget notes papers reported in www.australiandefender.com.au last week with OPV 7 being laid down in the next few months (july to september) which confirms that a lot of cash has already been spent on the ship. In really bad news the budget papers say that OPV1 Arafura delayed again for about another six months (to third quarter 2023) before RAN even starts its acceptance process so acceptance and commissioning could be well into 2024. More delays to OPV2 which will be launched in a few months (quarter 3 2023), six months later than the last planned delayed launch date. Aussie Defender also cites offsets paperwork handed to journalists at DSR lockdown which shows that the Navy's proposed MTUAS buy has been 'rescoped' to free up funds for other things.
https://www.australiandefender.com.au/new/shop/accessallareas/intel/1 23 intel/230510opv delays/2305arafura delays.htm (paywalled)
Thanks for the update re OPV 7

MTUAS looks like later rather than sooner.

Disappointing as this realm needs to be explored and consolidated. An important force multiplier that has a place on any vessel with a flight deck.
A capability not just restricted to Future OPVs.
Hopefully a short term thing.


Cheers S
 

devo99

Active Member
All this talk about how many of what, what is and is not suitable, going around in circles, is pretty pointless.
I think it would be more constructive to look at our geography and strategic circumstances and draw information and possible requirements from that as compared to coming up with definitions of ship types based on whatever. We don't know exactly what the government or RAN want but I think it is fair to discuss and speculate in certain areas.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I think it would be more constructive to look at our geography and strategic circumstances and draw information and possible requirements from that as compared to coming up with definitions of ship types based on whatever. We don't know exactly what the government or RAN want but I think it is fair to discuss and speculate in certain areas.
We have a very low tolerance for uninformed speculation. There is no information about what the Navy Review will determine because it hasn't reported back. It's just started.
 

Brissy1982

Active Member
Hi all, I’m new here but I’m keen to join the discussions on ADF matters following the release of the DSR. I’ve been following the discussions on this thread, which I’ve found very interesting. I’ve been out of the RAN for about 8 years now but still have many friends serving in the RAN, RAAF and Army with whom I speak on a regular basis. In this (my first post – please be kind) I’m going to add some thoughts of my own to the discussions in this thread around the future strategic environment in which the RAN will need to operate, which I hope will stimulate discussion about what the future capabilities of the RAN should feature. I welcome other views in response to mine, whether in agreement or to the contrary, as long as they are expressed respectfully.

For me, the most positive outcome of the DSR is a clear, coherent and very welcome focus on deterring, and if necessary defeating, potential threats to Australia’s interests in the Indo-Pacific region, most particularly threats to the security of Australia’s key maritime trade routes. The DSR (or at least the publicly-released version of it) doesn’t name any country specifically as a future threat; however, clearly what is being primarily considered is the increasing assertiveness and rapid military expansion of the People’s Republic of China (PRC), and the implications that has to tip the balance of power away from the United States (US) in the Indo-Pacific region. The region is no longer unipolar; great power competition is back in the Indo-Pacific region.

From my reading of the publicly-released version of the DSR, it appears to me that the following two high level capabilities underpin the DSR's thinking in the sense of what the ADF (and within it the RAN) needs to be able to do in the coming decades to effectively defend Australia's interests:
  • First, the capabilities required to unilaterally deter, and if necessary defeat, any threat to Australia’s interests within our immediate geographic region (our Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and the waters and airspace adjacent to our EEZ); and
  • Second, the capabilities required to contribute to deterring, and if necessary defeating, threats to Australia’s key trade routes and interests in the wider Indo-Pacific region as part of a coalition of forces.
The DSR is short on detail – and deliberately so. Fine detail is not what the DSR was for – I don’t think any single document could possibly detail everything that needs to be considered in shaping Australia’s defence policy for the coming decades. The detail that is missing from the DSR is to be filled in by subsequent, more focused analysis and decisions, including the review of the RAN’s future surface warfare capabilities announced with the release of the DSR.

The DSR assesses that the risk of an invasion of the Australian mainland is low and is very likely to remain low for the foreseeable future, and I think that assessment is quite correct. In the absence of a real risk of an invasion of the Australian mainland, the key strategic realities for Australia, at least as far as anyone can reasonably foresee, are the following.
  • Australia is a middle power, not a great power – we cannot, and should not attempt to, compete militarily on an equal footing with either the U.S. or the PRC.
  • The ADF (and within it the RAN) needs to have the capabilities required to enable it to effectively deter any potential adversary from acting against Australia’s interests, and to defeat any actions against Australia’s interests that might occur.
  • If the ADF (and the RAN as part of it) has to deter or defeat threats to Australia’s interests, this should be done as far as possible from Australia’s shores.
  • If it is necessary to deter or defeat threats, this should preferably be done in collaboration with Australia’s allies, friends and neighbours in the Indo-Pacific region.
What is missing from the publicly-released version of the DSR, and what I think is contributing to the debate around what the future ADF (and within it, the RAN) should look like, is an analysis of what future conflicts in the Indo-Pacific might involve. The publicly-released version of the DSR has been carefully sanitized of any such analysis, most likely to avoid exacerbating existing tensions with the PRC – and understandably so. But the absence of that analysis is what is stimulating much of the debate on this forum, in the media and in the defence community – and again, understandably so.

Fortunately, those who participate in this thread are not bound to refrain from specifically identifying potential threats to Australia’s interests. Personally, I can foresee a range of potential scenarios where the ADF may need to contribute to deterring, and if necessary defeating, threats to Australia’s interests and those of its allies, friends and neighbours in the Indo-Pacific. In no particular order of likelihood or relative importance to Australia’s interests, the potential threats I can foresee the ADF (and within it the RAN) being called upon to deter and if necessary defeat (whether on its own or as part of a coalition of forces) are as follows.
  • Land-based conflict between North Korea and South Korea on the Korean Peninsula.
  • Conflict between North Korea and South Korea in the airspace and waters around the Korean Peninsula.
  • Ballistic missile attacks (conventional or nuclear) by North Korea on South Korea, and potentially Japan and more distant locations, including the U.S. and (however unlikely) Australia.
  • Ballistic and/or cruise missile attacks (conventional or nuclear) by the PRC on Taiwan and more distant locations, potentially including Australia.
  • Attempted maritime and aerial blockade of Taiwan by the PRC.
  • Attempted invasion of Taiwan by the PRC.
  • Attempted assertion by the PRC by military force of its claims to ownership and control of islands and waters in the East China Sea (e.g. the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands north of Taiwan) and/or the South China Sea (e.g. the so-called “nine-dash line” encompassing Pratas Island, the Paracel Islands, the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal, and at least part of the Luzon Strait).
  • Conflicts over the extent of the Exclusive Economic Zones of various nations in relation to oil, gas, fisheries and other resources in the East China Sea (e.g. the PRC, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, and Russia) and/or the South China Sea (e.g. the PRC, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Indonesia).
  • Opportunistic establishment by the PRC of alliances with, and bases in, Indo-Pacific nations which have (at least by comparison to the PRC) limited military capacity to defend themselves (e.g. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Bangladesh) to expand its sphere of influence and enhance its ability to project power in key strategic areas (e.g. the Gulf of Thailand for access to the South China Sea, the Bay of Bengal for access to the northern Indian Ocean, and the Pacific island nations for greater reach into the broader Pacific Ocean).
  • Border conflicts between countries in continental Asia that have coastlines on the shores of the western Pacific and northern Indian Oceans (e.g. the North Korea and South Korea, the PRC, Myanmar, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan).
  • Threats to the safe passage of maritime traffic to and from Australia through key strategic points such as the East China Sea (especially the Taiwan Strait and Luzon Strait, the South China Sea and north-east Indian Ocean (especially the Strait of Malacca, Sunda Strait and Lombok Strait) from either state actors (see the above points), or non-state actors (e.g. piracy or terrorism).
  • Threats from either state actors or non-state actors affecting territories, waters and resources within Australia’s EEZ (e.g. the Cocos Islands, Christmas Island, and oil, gas and fisheries in our EEZ).
With the above points in mind, the ADF’s mission for the foreseeable future should not be primarily focused on conducting the type of grinding, attritional, relatively short-ranged land-based fighting that characterizes the current conflict in Ukraine and which characterised some of the Indo-Pacific conflicts in which Australia has had involvement in the post-WWII period (e.g. Korea and Vietnam). Of course, future conflicts in the Indo-Pacific region could well occur in which high-intensity, short-range, attritional land fighting is a major factor, and potentially the determinative factor. However, if a conflict involving such fighting does occur, it is likely to occur far to Australia’s north. Australian governments on both sides of politics should be, and I hope would be, very cautious about committing ADF ground forces to such a conflict on anything more than a modest scale. In any case, the numbers of ground forces that the ADF could deploy effectively to a high-intensity land conflict far from our shores is fairly limited. What the ADF will need to be able to do is to deter and if necessary defeat state and non-state actors that might seek restrict the free flow of maritime and air traffic to and from Australia through the Indo-Pacific region. That requires the ability to project power effectively at a long distance from Australia's shores.

In my next post, which will take me a few days to prepare given other commitments, I’m going to discuss what I think the future RAN’s capabilities should be in order to enable it to effectively contribute to the management of the strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific, and how those capabilities can be achieved, both in the medium term (the next 10-15 years) and the long-term (the following 30-40 years).

In the meantime, I’d welcome any comments that other members might wish to share in response to what I have written here, whether in agreement or disagreement with my views, as long as the comments are expressed respectfully.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Hi all, I’m new here but I’m keen to join the discussions on ADF matters following the release of the DSR. I’ve been following the discussions on this thread, which I’ve found very interesting. I’ve been out of the RAN for about 8 years now but still have many friends serving in the RAN, RAAF and Army with whom I speak on a regular basis. In this (my first post – please be kind) I’m going to add some thoughts of my own to the discussions in this thread around the future strategic environment in which the RAN will need to operate, which I hope will stimulate discussion about what the future capabilities of the RAN should feature. I welcome other views in response to mine, whether in agreement or to the contrary, as long as they are expressed respectfully.

For me, the most positive outcome of the DSR is a clear, coherent and very welcome focus on deterring, and if necessary defeating, potential threats to Australia’s interests in the Indo-Pacific region, most particularly threats to the security of Australia’s key maritime trade routes. The DSR (or at least the publicly-released version of it) doesn’t name any country specifically as a future threat; however, clearly what is being primarily considered is the increasing assertiveness and rapid military expansion of the People’s Republic of China (PRC), and the implications that has to tip the balance of power away from the United States (US) in the Indo-Pacific region. The region is no longer unipolar; great power competition is back in the Indo-Pacific region.

From my reading of the publicly-released version of the DSR, it appears to me that the following two high level capabilities underpin the DSR's thinking in the sense of what the ADF (and within it the RAN) needs to be able to do in the coming decades to effectively defend Australia's interests:
  • First, the capabilities required to unilaterally deter, and if necessary defeat, any threat to Australia’s interests within our immediate geographic region (our Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and the waters and airspace adjacent to our EEZ); and
  • Second, the capabilities required to contribute to deterring, and if necessary defeating, threats to Australia’s key trade routes and interests in the wider Indo-Pacific region as part of a coalition of forces.
The DSR is short on detail – and deliberately so. Fine detail is not what the DSR was for – I don’t think any single document could possibly detail everything that needs to be considered in shaping Australia’s defence policy for the coming decades. The detail that is missing from the DSR is to be filled in by subsequent, more focused analysis and decisions, including the review of the RAN’s future surface warfare capabilities announced with the release of the DSR.

The DSR assesses that the risk of an invasion of the Australian mainland is low and is very likely to remain low for the foreseeable future, and I think that assessment is quite correct. In the absence of a real risk of an invasion of the Australian mainland, the key strategic realities for Australia, at least as far as anyone can reasonably foresee, are the following.
  • Australia is a middle power, not a great power – we cannot, and should not attempt to, compete militarily on an equal footing with either the U.S. or the PRC.
  • The ADF (and within it the RAN) needs to have the capabilities required to enable it to effectively deter any potential adversary from acting against Australia’s interests, and to defeat any actions against Australia’s interests that might occur.
  • If the ADF (and the RAN as part of it) has to deter or defeat threats to Australia’s interests, this should be done as far as possible from Australia’s shores.
  • If it is necessary to deter or defeat threats, this should preferably be done in collaboration with Australia’s allies, friends and neighbours in the Indo-Pacific region.
What is missing from the publicly-released version of the DSR, and what I think is contributing to the debate around what the future ADF (and within it, the RAN) should look like, is an analysis of what future conflicts in the Indo-Pacific might involve. The publicly-released version of the DSR has been carefully sanitized of any such analysis, most likely to avoid exacerbating existing tensions with the PRC – and understandably so. But the absence of that analysis is what is stimulating much of the debate on this forum, in the media and in the defence community – and again, understandably so.

Fortunately, those who participate in this thread are not bound to refrain from specifically identifying potential threats to Australia’s interests. Personally, I can foresee a range of potential scenarios where the ADF may need to contribute to deterring, and if necessary defeating, threats to Australia’s interests and those of its allies, friends and neighbours in the Indo-Pacific. In no particular order of likelihood or relative importance to Australia’s interests, the potential threats I can foresee the ADF (and within it the RAN) being called upon to deter and if necessary defeat (whether on its own or as part of a coalition of forces) are as follows.
  • Land-based conflict between North Korea and South Korea on the Korean Peninsula.
  • Conflict between North Korea and South Korea in the airspace and waters around the Korean Peninsula.
  • Ballistic missile attacks (conventional or nuclear) by North Korea on South Korea, and potentially Japan and more distant locations, including the U.S. and (however unlikely) Australia.
  • Ballistic and/or cruise missile attacks (conventional or nuclear) by the PRC on Taiwan and more distant locations, potentially including Australia.
  • Attempted maritime and aerial blockade of Taiwan by the PRC.
  • Attempted invasion of Taiwan by the PRC.
  • Attempted assertion by the PRC by military force of its claims to ownership and control of islands and waters in the East China Sea (e.g. the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands north of Taiwan) and/or the South China Sea (e.g. the so-called “nine-dash line” encompassing Pratas Island, the Paracel Islands, the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal, and at least part of the Luzon Strait).
  • Conflicts over the extent of the Exclusive Economic Zones of various nations in relation to oil, gas, fisheries and other resources in the East China Sea (e.g. the PRC, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, and Russia) and/or the South China Sea (e.g. the PRC, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Indonesia).
  • Opportunistic establishment by the PRC of alliances with, and bases in, Indo-Pacific nations which have (at least by comparison to the PRC) limited military capacity to defend themselves (e.g. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Bangladesh) to expand its sphere of influence and enhance its ability to project power in key strategic areas (e.g. the Gulf of Thailand for access to the South China Sea, the Bay of Bengal for access to the northern Indian Ocean, and the Pacific island nations for greater reach into the broader Pacific Ocean).
  • Border conflicts between countries in continental Asia that have coastlines on the shores of the western Pacific and northern Indian Oceans (e.g. the North Korea and South Korea, the PRC, Myanmar, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan).
  • Threats to the safe passage of maritime traffic to and from Australia through key strategic points such as the East China Sea (especially the Taiwan Strait and Luzon Strait, the South China Sea and north-east Indian Ocean (especially the Strait of Malacca, Sunda Strait and Lombok Strait) from either state actors (see the above points), or non-state actors (e.g. piracy or terrorism).
  • Threats from either state actors or non-state actors affecting territories, waters and resources within Australia’s EEZ (e.g. the Cocos Islands, Christmas Island, and oil, gas and fisheries in our EEZ).
With the above points in mind, the ADF’s mission for the foreseeable future should not be primarily focused on conducting the type of grinding, attritional, relatively short-ranged land-based fighting that characterizes the current conflict in Ukraine and which characterised some of the Indo-Pacific conflicts in which Australia has had involvement in the post-WWII period (e.g. Korea and Vietnam). Of course, future conflicts in the Indo-Pacific region could well occur in which high-intensity, short-range, attritional land fighting is a major factor, and potentially the determinative factor. However, if a conflict involving such fighting does occur, it is likely to occur far to Australia’s north. Australian governments on both sides of politics should be, and I hope would be, very cautious about committing ADF ground forces to such a conflict on anything more than a modest scale. In any case, the numbers of ground forces that the ADF could deploy effectively to a high-intensity land conflict far from our shores is fairly limited. What the ADF will need to be able to do is to deter and if necessary defeat state and non-state actors that might seek restrict the free flow of maritime and air traffic to and from Australia through the Indo-Pacific region. That requires the ability to project power effectively at a long distance from Australia's shores.

In my next post, which will take me a few days to prepare given other commitments, I’m going to discuss what I think the future RAN’s capabilities should be in order to enable it to effectively contribute to the management of the strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific, and how those capabilities can be achieved, both in the medium term (the next 10-15 years) and the long-term (the following 30-40 years).
Welcome to the forum, a lot of good points in your post. It will take a while but I think you will get a lot out of reading through both this thread and its predecessor RAN updates 1.0, if you haven't already.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
@Brissy1982 Very detailed do you have thoughts on Australia through direct aid circumventing attempts by China to establish itself in Pacific islands through high loans and debt?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Hi all, I’m new here but I’m keen to join the discussions on ADF matters following the release of the DSR. I’ve been following the discussions on this thread, which I’ve found very interesting. I’ve been out of the RAN for about 8 years now but still have many friends serving in the RAN, RAAF and Army with whom I speak on a regular basis. In this (my first post – please be kind) I’m going to add some thoughts of my own to the discussions in this thread around the future strategic environment in which the RAN will need to operate, which I hope will stimulate discussion about what the future capabilities of the RAN should feature. I welcome other views in response to mine, whether in agreement or to the contrary, as long as they are expressed respectfully.

...
Hi @Brissy1982 Welcome to the forum. You have posted a very insightful first post. BZ.
 

devo99

Active Member
We have a very low tolerance for uninformed speculation. There is no information about what the Navy Review will determine because it hasn't reported back. It's just started.
Duly noted. I'll keep to observations in the future.
 
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Stampede

Well-Known Member
Purchased a recent edition of Australian warship ( Print ).
Nice to see a couple of pics of NUSHIP Arafura not alongside a pier.
Still being pushed around with a tug!
What took my interest was that the ship had it's two 8.5m FRB 850 RHIB's on board. Nice to see.
What also stood out was the size of the ships cranes to move these boats and no doubt containers and other items.
They appear very big in relationship to the ship.
All up NUSHP Arafura looks much much bigger than the patrol boat predecessor's.

Hopefully some more imagery becomes available when sea trials commence.


Cheers S
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
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