I think he was referring to fan art grafting the visible tops of VLS in various locations on a ship with no regard to the volume required below deck so if installed too far forward the lower part would protrude from the ships sides and too far aft and they would interrupt the shafts and stick out the bottom.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
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The MU90 was yet another example of stuffed up defence procurement from the late 90s early 2000s. Tiger got most of the bad press but to be honest it was probably over all more successful and better value for money than MU90, MRH90, FFGUP, SuperSeasprite, ANZAC WIP, Armidales, the initial LAND 121 Phase 3, M-113 upgrade and more.
It is often sold as under performing contractors letting Australia down, the ADF gold plating everything, or the public service mismanaging acquisitions, but truth be told, the common factor has always been government deciding on gut, price or pork, instead of hard data. Fingers crossed we are finally going to get the reset we need to get things back on track and depoliticised. The rot started with Labor not funding their own policies and reforms in the mid 90s and have been made worse by every parliament since, successive governments literally broke the decision making processes, dramatically increasing the number and magnitude of dumb decisions.
A dog’s breakfast of a project… Even’s defence’s own data showed the capabilities of Mk.54 and MU-90 were ‘broadly’ comparable…
Sounds like someone got a job on the back of it…
I think the timelines of the mk54 as a replacement for the mk46 didn't match the RANs wants and needs. Mk 54 was a 2004 thing and the mk46 replacement was setup in 1998. MU90 has some advantages in depth speed and I believe decoy/softkill/hard kill space.
However, given no one had given it a warshot until the RAN did, I am now inherently skeptical of any Euro claim on almost any weapon system.
However, given no one had given it a warshot until the RAN did, I am now inherently skeptical of any Euro claim on almost any weapon system.
Going Boeing
Well-Known Member
Yes, I mentioned the Mk57 VLS in my post #2,095 and, from what I read, they are variable in size - thus able to launch a wider variety of weapons than the Mk41, including the proposed hypersonic ones. The new Northrop Grumman EJECT system is also claimed to be available in different sizes to accommodate the new weapons. The main advantage of this system is the significantly reduced damage done to the launch system and other ship components by heat and exhaust plume chemicals.
Both Williamstown and Cockatoo Island shipyards were once in the centre of industrial areas with relatively cheap housing close by for the workforce.
These suburbs have become gentrified and hideously expensive which has meant that any prospective workforce would be disadvantaged.
Furthermore these well off and privileged suburbs are the epicentre of the greening political sentiment which epitomises the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) outlook. “How dare they pollute the air and make dreadful noises near me and all those dirty manual workers drinking coffee in my cafe”
So, Vale’ Dogtown and Codock.
Totally aside from NIMBY, is the wages and housing availability
WAGES
Std Boilermaker $85,800pa
Skilled Boilermaker $110, 000-$140,000pa
Std Fitter $90,000pa (skilled like above)
HOUSE PRICES - Williamstown VIC 3016
Median house sale price $1,636,250
Median unit sale price $719,999
HOUSE PRICES - Drummoyne, NSW 2047 (Cockatoo Island)
Median 2 Bed House $2m
Median 3 Bed House $2.5m
Median 4 Bed House $3.75m
A Principal and interest on 1.5mil loan is $2,902 a fortnight - OR $75,452 p/year
your standard Boilermaker can't afford a house that's
less than 45min drive from work in Sydney or Melbourne
A large % of the people on the forum are over 60, and remember what it was
and don't see what it is now, it's also why all the Boilermakers/Fitters went to the mines.
WAGES
Std Boilermaker $85,800pa
Skilled Boilermaker $110, 000-$140,000pa
Std Fitter $90,000pa (skilled like above)
HOUSE PRICES - Williamstown VIC 3016
Median house sale price $1,636,250
Median unit sale price $719,999
HOUSE PRICES - Drummoyne, NSW 2047 (Cockatoo Island)
Median 2 Bed House $2m
Median 3 Bed House $2.5m
Median 4 Bed House $3.75m
A Principal and interest on 1.5mil loan is $2,902 a fortnight - OR $75,452 p/year
your standard Boilermaker can't afford a house that's
less than 45min drive from work in Sydney or Melbourne
A large % of the people on the forum are over 60, and remember what it was
and don't see what it is now, it's also why all the Boilermakers/Fitters went to the mines.
Yes, exactly. Thanks
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I believe (going off memory here, a dangerous prospect at best...) that the US equivalent to the MU90 as a replacement for the Mk 46 was actually the Mk 50 LWT which had design work start circa ~1989. The US ended up deciding to not replace the Mk 46 LWT with the Mk 50, and instead had the Mk 54 developed which was to incorporate improvements to systems found in the earlier LWT's. The Mk 50 had a propulsion system developed to enable engaging Soviet Alfa-class SSN's which had both high top speed and deep diving capabilities. While the Mk 50 propulsion was capable, it was also IIRC quite expensive and IIRC the MU90 has a similarly capable (and expensive) propulsion system. Meanwhile, the Mk 54 was to feature sensor and guidance improvements developed for the Mk 50, with a propulsion system more like that of the Mk 46 which was slower and significantly less expensive. IIRC there had also been some propulsion developments to make the Mk 54 more effective in shallow/littoral waters that the Mk 46 had been.
One of the major issues I have with the ADF having selected the MU90 as the replacement LWT was that as I understand it, the selection was made at least in part on the belief that the MU90 was a developed weapon system, when the reality proved to be rather different. By the time the MU90 was actually ready for frontline service, I believe the threat matrix had changed.
Ok, dumb question here, regarding the LWT.
I appreciate the air dropped deployment, and even rocket assisted ranged deployment (ASROC), both implying a LWT solution.
im thinking that a ship fired shot would be opportunistic at best and quite rare.
im wondering if the actual shipborne deployment for the LWT will evolve into a more dedicated subsurface type of CIWS application; be that anti-torpedo torpedo or anti-mine.
further, in an effort to deal with the ship launched ASW role at competitive ranges, is there a place for ship launched HWTs, presuming there is a capable target acquisition?
what do we think?
I appreciate the air dropped deployment, and even rocket assisted ranged deployment (ASROC), both implying a LWT solution.
im thinking that a ship fired shot would be opportunistic at best and quite rare.
im wondering if the actual shipborne deployment for the LWT will evolve into a more dedicated subsurface type of CIWS application; be that anti-torpedo torpedo or anti-mine.
further, in an effort to deal with the ship launched ASW role at competitive ranges, is there a place for ship launched HWTs, presuming there is a capable target acquisition?
what do we think?
Takao
The Bunker Group
The USN trialled a system for a few years, the Anti-Torpedo Torpedo Defense System (seriously, the American's should not be allowed to name anything...). It didn't mature quick enough, so publicly it was revealed the CVN's that had it fitted, lost it. What that means for a feasible system in terms of size or response I'd suggest is still in the air, although likely not goodness.
The threat matrix had changed, our scope and requirements had changed and we had to buy Mk.54 by then anyway or face a likely billion dollar plus integration effort to put the ridiculously expensive MU-90 onto Seahawk and P-8A…
With the benefit of hindsight and given Mk.54 was ordered into full rate production in 2004, we should have saved ourselves a bunch of cash and gone all in on Mk.54…
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MU-90 advertise an optional ‘hard kill’ anti-torpedo capability, but no idea if we actually acquired it or not. If we did it may go some way to explaining why we have retained the capability in-service and all the added expense therein, but then we are about to put a torpedo soft kill and hard kill self-defence system onto the ANZAC’s and Hobarts so maybe not…
ANZAC class frigates to get towed array sonar systems - Australian Defence Magazine
Some 16 to 21 years after commissioning, the RAN’s eight Anzac-class frigates are to be equipped with towed array sonar systems.
www.australiandefence.com.au
I think that relates to the Mk 99 MFCS controlling the loading and arming of the selected weapon, launches the weapon, and provides terminal guidance for AAW (Anti-Air Warfare) missiles, including the target illumination for the terminal guidance of SM-2. Target illumination is provided by the AN/SPS62 illuminators.
My understanding is the TR modules are in the antenna array itself removing the need for wave guides from transmit and receive systems and a long wave guide. Long wave guides in radars such as the AN/SPS 49 can degrade radar performance.
Microwaves101 | Transmit/Receive Modules
They seem to persist with MU90, so presumably it has something worthwhile over the Mk54.
I have heard it does have superior deep water performance, others have pointed out range, and I believe hardkill, mine, etc capabilities exist with it.
With longer range and hardkill interception capabilities it would seem to be a non-useless thing to have. the Mu90 can be launched by milas similar to Asroc but the RAN has not expressed any interest in that. So it would seem hardkill, mine or decoy capabilities are probably valued more than sinking subs with it. Even these capabilities are fairly weak, hail mary attempts, still better than nothing. Particularly after many $'s spent buying and intergrating.
I have heard it does have superior deep water performance, others have pointed out range, and I believe hardkill, mine, etc capabilities exist with it.
With longer range and hardkill interception capabilities it would seem to be a non-useless thing to have. the Mu90 can be launched by milas similar to Asroc but the RAN has not expressed any interest in that. So it would seem hardkill, mine or decoy capabilities are probably valued more than sinking subs with it. Even these capabilities are fairly weak, hail mary attempts, still better than nothing. Particularly after many $'s spent buying and intergrating.
The navy is starting to invest in a range of automated vessels and aircraft. With its massive mission bay and enlarged flight deck it would seem obvious that a lot of this equipment will be deployed from the Hunter class. While we talk in terms of air launched and ship launched torpedoes it is quite likely that they will either be supplemented or even supplanted be newer technologies. We could see the navy equivalent of loitering munitions which could be far more effective than what we have now.
A New Dimension in Naval Warfare: Loitering Munitions - Naval Post- Naval News and Information
We haven't seen any combat use of Naval Loitering Munitions so far. But new developments show that it is very soon that we will see Loitering Munitions in naval warfare.
navalpost.com
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
More and more coming to see the Hunter class as the 21st Century version of the Italian Helicopter Cruisers of the 1960s, similar size, a decent ability to defend itself with a strong AAW fit, a decent Gun/Guns, good ASuW and the ability to carry a decent number of semi independent ASW, ISR systems, Helicopters in the 60s, Autonomous Vehicles and a Helicopter today.The navy is starting to invest in a range of automated vessels and aircraft. With its massive mission bay and enlarged flight deck it would seem obvious that a lot of this equipment will be deployed from the Hunter class. While we talk in terms of air launched and ship launched torpedoes it is quite likely that they will either be supplemented or even supplanted be newer technologies. We could see the navy equivalent of loitering munitions which could be far more effective than what we have now.
A New Dimension in Naval Warfare: Loitering Munitions - Naval Post- Naval News and Information
We haven't seen any combat use of Naval Loitering Munitions so far. But new developments show that it is very soon that we will see Loitering Munitions in naval warfare.
"The Royal Australian Navy's two new Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment (AOR) ships, HMA Supply and Stalwart are berthed alongside each other for the first time at Fleet Base East, Sydney. HMAS Stalwart's homeported to Fleet Base West and has arrived at Fleet Base East for sea trials and training. The AOR's primary role is to replenish naval units or Joint Force while at sea, shifting from the capability provided by previous support ships - as their systems enable them to integrate more fully into Task Group operations." Image Source : ADF Image Library
The new government may need to clarify Australia's submarine future.
www.abc.net.au
Cheers S
Submariners push for new 'son of Collins' fleet before nuclear boats arrive
Former submariners with the Royal Australian Navy are warning a newer version of the Collins-class boat is needed as a stopgap measure before the AUKUS nuclear-powered submarines start hitting the water in the 2040s.
www.abc.net.au
Cheers S