Plastic Tanks?

Beatmaster

New Member
I found this on the web perhaps a nice topic to talk about:

Plastic Tank
Our new plastic armoured fighting vehicle (AFV) has sailed through its battle tests and proved to have major advantages over conventional metallic armoured vehicles of a similar size.

Picture Plastic tank

The 'plastic tank' is a world first in military engineering. It's a groundbreaking new project, in conjunction with the UK Ministry of Defence and Vickers Defence Systems. The vehicle can withstand attack from a whole range of threats - including high performance cannon fire - while increasing the survivability of the crew against small arms fire, shaped charge anti-tank rounds and shrapnel from artillery shells, compared with conventional vehicles. In addition, the vehicle incorporates stealth technology to reduce its visibility to radar and infrared sensors.

The Advanced Composite Armoured Vehicle Platform (ACAVP) is the first composite moncoque plastic AFV to have been made in the world. Vickers believe it could prove a tremendous asset; it's faster, lighter and therefore easier to transport by air than conventional vehicles, so it can be flown rapidly to war zones.

AFV construction hasn't changed much since the 1960s, when aluminium was introduced as an alternative to steel, so why the need for such a radical departure now? It's all a question of weight and of how the British Army is increasingly becoming involved in policing the world.

A significantly important role for the Army in the 21st century is as a rapid reaction force; as seen in May 2000, when a battalion of Paras was flown overnight from the UK to Sierra Leone to evacuate British nationals. This occurred just two days after 300 UN peacekeepers had been taken hostage and rebels were ransacking the capital. Although armoured vehicles could be useful in such operations, their weight can prohibit rapid air deployment. When Britain spearheaded the peacekeeping forces in Bosnia in 1992, for example, the troops were on 24-hours notice to fly from their bases in Germany, while their vehicles took nearly a month to be shipped to Split. This effectively left soldiers stranded, unable to venture up country without protection from their armoured vehicles.

The answer was to develop a vehicle with at least the same protective capabilities as those currently in use, but light enough to be airlifted easily at short notice. This meant abandoning metals for a lightweight, but extremely tough, moulded E-glass fibre composite: plastic.

For many years, composites have been used to make protective liners in armoured vehicles to prevent spallation - the potentially deadly shower of metal shards that can shear off inside the hull when the vehicle is hit. By removing the metal hull and replacing it with a plastic construction, there is no need for the weight-increasing spall liner and the danger to the crew from a hit is reduced by the design. It has passed all the tests required of a fully operational military vehicle and the technology can now be taken up by industry to be used in production vehicles.

We envisage a whole range of armoured vehicles being developed from the basic composite hull, each with a different role, such as armoured personnel carrier, reconnaissance, command, communications, logistics and ambulance. Its most important role may be during peacekeeping, during which the safety of the vehicle's crew becomes the overriding requirement.

The plastic tank at a glance:
Weight: just 24 tons, four tons lighter than the similar metallic vehicle
Top speed of 40mph over rugged terrain
Decreased fuel consumption, reducing the need for supporting fuel tankers
Increased survivability for the crew, through: reduced visibility to radar and infra-red scanners; reduced risk of shrapnel inside the hull; better protection against bullets, mortars and land-mines
Ideal for use in salt-water conditions, as plastic is less susceptible to corrosion than metal.



Plastic tanks....could it be done? and could it be a new kind of protection that works? i mean there are many forms of plastic's that are very strong but can it really protect the crew from a direct hit?
 

dragonfire

New Member
Very interesting concept, wht i would like to know about is the proposed protective armour for it, the kind of heat withstanding levels and how it defends against penetration rounds
 

outsider

New Member
"Weight: just 24 tons, four tons lighter than the similar metallic vehicle
Top speed of 40mph over rugged terrain"

4 tons or 15% lighter is not that much of a weight saving gained from using plastic rather than metal, although usefull nevertheless. Although, the other advantages mentioned are worth having.

If you could get a plastic vehichle to be 40% or 50% lighter but have the same protection as metal that would be revolutionary.
 

Beatmaster

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Iam searching the internet to find out about the Armor and other spec's
no luck so far but what i did found was a newstekst where they said that the first real operational prototype did successfully completed extensive field trials.


UK AFV with composite hull passes field tests

The UK's Advanced Composite Armoured Vehicle Platform (ACAVP), Europe's first armoured fighting vehicle (AFV) with a plastic/glass-fibre hull, has successfully completed extensive field trials.

According to the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA), these trials demonstrated it would be possible for future AFVs to use a plastic/glass-fibre hull that would offer the user significant advantages over current aluminium/steel hulls. These advantages include a reduction in weight by integrating the spall liner into the composite structure, decreased acoustic signature and the incorporation of stealth characteristics. These characteristics increase battlefield survivability.

ACAVP development started in 1993 under the leadership of DERA with the involvement of a number of UK contractors. Vosper Thornycroft, which has extensive experience in advanced composite materials, built the hull.

Vickers Defence Systems (VDS) at Leeds carried out design work as well as being responsible for integrating all of the subsystems and delivering the complete vehicle to DERA early last year ready for trials.

Other companies contributing expertise included Ciba; Hexel Composites; the Army Base Repair Organisation; Kidde-Graviner; and the Perkins Engine Company.

As the basic idea was to test the viability of a composite hull, all of the key subsystems were taken from existing and well-proven vehicles. The complete running gear is from the Alvis Vehicles Warrior infantry fighting vehicle with the power pack of the Desert Warrior. The latter consists of a Perkins Engines Company CV8 Condor developing 550hp coupled to an X-300 automatic transmission and a modified cooling system. With a weight of around 24 tonnes, the ACAVP has a power-to-weight ratio of 23hp/tonne.

The ACAVP hull is made from E-glass, which is a plastic/glass-fibre composite, and compared with a normal AFV hull provides a higher level of protection at a lower weight. An appliqué layer of passive armour is fitted to the hull front and sides for more protection.

It is guarded against 14.5mm armour-piercing (AP) attack through 360º and has protection against 30mm AP attack over the frontal arc. The appliqué armour can be rapidly removed to allow the vehicle to be transported by a Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules.

Following initial trials at VDS's Leeds facility, the ACAVP went to Chertsey for a series of functional and safety tests. These included measuring climbing ability, gradient, side slope, trench crossing and speed characteristics. It then went to the British Army's Armoured Trials and Development Unit (ATDU) at Bovington for a further 1,800km of battlefield day trials.

While there were failures of subsystems, for example, a split fuel tank and several fuel and hydraulic line fractures, there was no damage to the composite hull, which met all of its design requirements.

By fitting a more compact power pack and hydro pneumatic suspension, further weight savings could be made. A rubber band track could further reduce noise levels.

DERA hopes to start a four-year Integrated Survivability Demonstrator (ISD) programme in 2005. This vehicle will probably have a composite hull as well as a number of other features such as active armour and a defensive aids suite.

As yet there is no production application for the ACAVP, although its design has been configured as a reconnaissance vehicle where the two-person crew compartment is at the front, mission module is in the centre with the Fox 30mm turret and the power pack at the rear.



Here a foto of this so called plastic tank

Differend project but the same pic as my first post.


Iam no expert but if this really gonna work out than you can have a huge avantage on the battle field, Stealth, Speed, Weight and Cost (Fuel) Reduction to name a few.
So i will search the net for more i keep you posted.


Edit: I found one website that was claiming that a new version of the leopart 2 main battle tank will be overhauled to plastic armor.
But due Internet Explorer crash i lost the page i will try to find it and post it here.

Found it Link
 

hotrod44

Banned Member
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF,OR SEEN ANY CONCEPTS OF A NEW U.S M1M3 MBT, THE RUSSIAN BMP FAMILY OF LIGHT ATTACT TANKS/APC OR LAV SEEMS TO BE NICE A A GREAT TOOL! I WONDER IF THE U.S HAS A LAV TO MATCH IT'S CAPABILITIES 1 OF THERE BMP-3M HAS A grenades LUNCHER 100MM GUN/MISSILE &30MM,2-7.62X54 LMG AS FAR AS I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THIS TOOL?
 

lalitghag

New Member
I have watch Plastic Tank episode on Future Weapons( Discovery Channel). I think tank has developed by British. I am unable to get link for same. I will post information on same as soon as i will get same.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF,OR SEEN ANY CONCEPTS OF A NEW U.S M1M3 MBT, THE RUSSIAN BMP FAMILY OF LIGHT ATTACT TANKS/APC OR LAV SEEMS TO BE NICE A A GREAT TOOL! I WONDER IF THE U.S HAS A LAV TO MATCH IT'S CAPABILITIES 1 OF THERE BMP-3M HAS A grenades LUNCHER 100MM GUN/MISSILE &30MM,2-7.62X54 LMG AS FAR AS I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THIS TOOL?
Please don't type in all caps. In internet speak it means that you are shouting, and generally comes across ass immature. Your post is also thoroughly off-topic. ;)
 

lobbie111

New Member
Please don't type in all caps. In internet speak it means that you are shouting, and generally comes across ass immature. Your post is also thoroughly off-topic. ;)
hehe ass...Very interesting, this could do wonders for repairs, only have to stick layers upon layers of glass fibre to fix the hole...
 

Beatmaster

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
So, what is the solution for this tank concept against heat-based weapons?

In this Link is explained more about the "Plastic Concept"

I if i recall the tekst correct than the Tank will have a solid defence against heat seeking weapons, Because of its very low Heat profile.

So killing this tank with heatseeking weapons should be possible but way more difficult than shooting on a normal tank.
The exact data i do not have but if i read the tekst than this plastic tank will be very hard to hit by heat seeking weapons (harder to hit than a normal tank like a leopard 2 tank)

But thats just speculation....
 

lobbie111

New Member
In this Link is explained more about the "Plastic Concept"

I if i recall the tekst correct than the Tank will have a solid defence against heat seeking weapons, Because of its very low Heat profile.

So killing this tank with heatseeking weapons should be possible but way more difficult than shooting on a normal tank.
The exact data i do not have but if i read the tekst than this plastic tank will be very hard to hit by heat seeking weapons (harder to hit than a normal tank like a leopard 2 tank)

But thats just speculation....
I think he meant temperature based weapons, for example when a 120mm AP tank round hits a tank the heat given off is phenominal, enough to melt the plastic per se...The plastic must be a type of thermoplastic that retains its shape really REALLY well...
 

Beatmaster

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I think he meant temperature based weapons, for example when a 120mm AP tank round hits a tank the heat given off is phenominal, enough to melt the plastic per se...The plastic must be a type of thermoplastic that retains its shape really REALLY well...

I agree with your explaination about the 120mm AP Round, honestly i cannot tell you what would happen if the 120mm AP Round hits, the only thing i did read about "Direct Hits" is that this tank was tested agains a wide range of modern weapons including, Leopard 2A1-2A4, Chieftain 900, Challenger 2E.
(See this links in previous post)

Because of the lack on info on the internet i did make a few calls to find out more, I did have a short talk with a guy from TNO and he said that this Tank should be able to give some protection to the crew because he said that the plastic concept is not completly new he said that plastic/fibreglass components are already used as composite armor in many of today's main battle tanks acctually in the second world war they are already testing this idea see this link

Anyway the guy said that this Tank will save lives but the down side is that the armor like all other armor worldwide is not perfect and eventually the crew and the tank itself will be destroyed.

But again i do not have any proof or solid links where the details are provided because the lack of info on the net, so if anyone knows more about "Plastic Tanks" feel free to post some in this topic.
 

Vajt

New Member
I remember reading of this some years ago and it looked like a great idea, but haven't heard much since then. As some have hinted, although the idea has potential, the actual benefits may not compensate for the increased development and manufacturing costs that go into mass producing a new vehicle such as this.

-----JT-----
 

Beatmaster

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Plastic tanks ... WTF .. Im gona piss my pants ... LOL :eek:nfloorl::D
Yes you read it Plastic tank iam not joking.
Advanced Composite Armoured Vehicle Platform (ACAVP),



Anyway a little update about the armor and testing:

DERA scientists constantly analyse the possible characteristics of a future battlefield and the likely characteristics of the vehicles that will operate in it. An example of a DERA-led future vehicle research project is the advanced composite armoured vehicle platform (ACAVP) project that is known affectionately as the plastic tank. This project is led by DERA Land Systems in partnership with Short Brothers and Vickers Defence Systems.

The ACAVP project is concentrating on the two main issues of hull design and its producibility. The hull of ACAVP is constructed from top and bottom mouldings made from epoxy-bonded glass fibres. The ballistic protection is enhanced by the use of a layer of add-on metal armour. By themselves, epoxy-glass-fibre laminates offer extremely good protection against shell fragments, especially in parts of the hull where these laminates are up to 60-65mm thick. The strength of these laminates comes from glass fibres, therefore it is important that their glass content is as high as possible. A glass-fibre content of 60 per cent by volume has been achieved in test mouldings by using a resin transfer moulding process.

The plastic tank is a prime example of DERA scientists' approach to future vehicle concepts. Known officially as the advanced composite armoured vehicle platform (ACAVP), the project has concentrated on epoxy-bonded, glass-fibre hull design that offers good protection against shell fragments



A reduction in total vehicle weight for the ACAVP over metal hulls will amount to 22 tonnes combat loaded, but weight savings of this order are not yet sufficient to justify the adoption of resin-bonded, glass-fibre hulls. However, the necessary reductions in weight are less important at this stage of development than establishing whether such hulls can be produced economically and operate satisfactorily. Answers will not begin to emerge until they are built and in the case of the ACAVP this should be by the end of 1997.



So it seems that the first prototype date back a few years, and still it is a new project to the UK where they made a different and more versions of this ACAVP concept.
 

hotrod44

Banned Member
PISS OFF IF U DON'T LIKE MY CAPS,comes across ass immature.I HOPE THIS DOES'NT COMEOFF IMMATURE AND" thoroughly off-topic YOU SNAB
 

Beatmaster

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
PISS OFF IF U DON'T LIKE MY CAPS,comes across ass immature.I HOPE THIS DOES'NT COMEOFF IMMATURE AND" thoroughly off-topic YOU SNAB


He buddy keep it down will ya a bit respect for the members would be nice:lul.


@Harms yeah you are right, calling badnames and badwords is stupid enough but say these things to Feanor (or any other admin/mod) is ill guess the most stupid thing you can do on this forum whahahaha:eek:nfloorl:.
 

magnum9987

New Member
Now, the ACAVP project looks fascinating. Really. But, I've seen pictures of it, and it's gun is comparative to a pea shooter. At most, it could be a 25mm gun. Sure that makes infantry and thin skinned vehicles shit their pants, but the rounds will just bounce off a full sized battle tank. Unless that gun can handle a massive powder charge and obtain extremely high velocities, then it is next to useless.
 

Tavarisch

New Member
Now, the ACAVP project looks fascinating. Really. But, I've seen pictures of it, and it's gun is comparative to a pea shooter. At most, it could be a 25mm gun. Sure that makes infantry and thin skinned vehicles shit their pants, but the rounds will just bounce off a full sized battle tank. Unless that gun can handle a massive powder charge and obtain extremely high velocities, then it is next to useless.

Maybe for AT purposes, it can use a pintle-mounted Javelin?
 
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