Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates

Ananda

The Bunker Group
As for newer/additional naval vessels... Not sure whether or not more OPV-type vessels are really called for, or smaller IPVs, or whether significant replacement of both are needed. No question that much of the ocean-going Phillipine Navy is old, with a number of ex-WWII and post-war designs. Does anyone know what areas the AFP currently has the most difficulty handling patrolling and enforcement? Is it within the EEZ, or is there a need for more intra-island patrolling and interception?

-Cheers
With US seems going to give additional 7 Hamilton Class CG Cutter over period of 5years, this seems will provide ships that can perform suitable OPV duty with costs that can match what Philipines has.

My only concern for Hamilton is the CODOG propulsions.Gas turbine simply will not cut for Third World countries if they want to make sure they have economical long range patrol vessels. Current diesels I believe can provide economical and at the same time it can close match what the turbines (whether Gas or Steam) can give on accelerations.

When Indonesian Navy replace all the steam turbines on the Van Speijk Frigates with 90's diesel technology, the result show on the performance that still can close match accelerations of the turbines but provide the better economy and longger range patrol endurance.

Change CODOG propulsions to CODAD for those Hamilton, and Philipines can have long range OPV wich economical enough thus can improved their endurances and availability. Even Singapore in which has biggest defence budgets in SEA choose all diesels for their Frigates.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
With US seems going to give additional 7 Hamilton Class CG Cutter over period of 5years, this seems will provide ships that can perform suitable OPV duty with costs that can match what Philipines has.

My only concern for Hamilton is the CODOG propulsions.Gas turbine simply will not cut for Third World countries if they want to make sure they have economical long range patrol vessels. Current diesels I believe can provide economical and at the same time it can close match what the turbines (whether Gas or Steam) can give on accelerations.

When Indonesian Navy replace all the steam turbines on the Van Speijk Frigates with 90's diesel technology, the result show on the performance that still can close match accelerations of the turbines but provide the better economy and longger range patrol endurance.

Change CODOG propulsions to CODAD for those Hamilton, and Philipines can have long range OPV wich economical enough thus can improved their endurances and availability. Even Singapore in which has biggest defence budgets in SEA choose all diesels for their Frigates.
If the Philippine Navy is supposed to receive additional Hamilton-class cutters, that would indeed provide a significant boost/replacement for much of the blue water patroling.

Now, assuming that the current CODOG machinery is functioning properly, I would recommend just leaving them as is. To begin with, USCGC's typically have significantly longer range than most other surface vessels, ~10,000 miles IIRC, whereas most other surface patrolcraft and warships have ranges which top out ~5,000 miles.

Something to consider, CODOG machinery is there to provide an economical cruising speed, with the additional ability to switch to using the gas turbine for times when additional power/speed are required. If economical operation is a concern, then perhaps only operate the gas turbine portion at a minimum, when high sprint speeds are required.

A major overhaul to replace the CODOG with CODAD machinery would IMO be expensive, time consuming, and risky. Remember, these vessels are not new build which means that in the process of extricating the gas turbine machinery and replacing it with an additional diesel, there is the definate chance that damage to the current machinery, shaft, etc could occur.

-Cheers
 

ed famie

New Member
If the Philippine Navy is supposed to receive additional Hamilton-class cutters, that would indeed provide a significant boost/replacement for much of the blue water patroling.

Now, assuming that the current CODOG machinery is functioning properly, I would recommend just leaving them as is. To begin with, USCGC's typically have significantly longer range than most other surface vessels, ~10,000 miles IIRC, whereas most other surface patrolcraft and warships have ranges which top out ~5,000 miles.

Something to consider, CODOG machinery is there to provide an economical cruising speed, with the additional ability to switch to using the gas turbine for times when additional power/speed are required. If economical operation is a concern, then perhaps only operate the gas turbine portion at a minimum, when high sprint speeds are required.

A major overhaul to replace the CODOG with CODAD machinery would IMO be expensive, time consuming, and risky. Remember, these vessels are not new build which means that in the process of extricating the gas turbine machinery and replacing it with an additional diesel, there is the definate chance that damage to the current machinery, shaft, etc could occur.

-Cheers
I read in Defense-Studies.blogspot.com. that the Philippine Navy would be purchasing 8 more ex hamilton class within 5 year period, if it is so, then these be a big boast to morale of the AFP in patrolling the 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone, what about the Air Force, does any body have the knowledge what are there plans of what kind of plane they plan to buy?
 

gforce

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #124
I read in Defense-Studies.blogspot.com. that the Philippine Navy would be purchasing 8 more ex hamilton class within 5 year period, if it is so, then these be a big boast to morale of the AFP in patrolling the 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone, what about the Air Force, does any body have the knowledge what are there plans of what kind of plane they plan to buy?
- more trainer aircraft
- combat utility helicopters
- maritime patrol aircraft
 

niftyDolphine

New Member
i heard that they are planning to purchase helicopters and trainer aircraft only. I hope they at least try get 'attack' helicopters.
 

gforce

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #126
i heard that they are planning to purchase helicopters and trainer aircraft only. I hope they at least try get 'attack' helicopters.
The NCAH (night capable attack helicopter) deal was postponed due to corruption allegations and other anomalies but there are news that the Philippine Air Force will be receiving additional MD-520 light attack helicopters.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Why would Philippines need dedicated attack helicopters? It seems more surveillance and patrol choppers with light attack capability is needed.
 

kimeli

New Member
why do we always need to buy old junks from other countries, why not make our own at least it will be brand new
 

Belesari

New Member
Well you have to think about it this way. Building a Warship is different from a commerical vessel. There is alot of specialized knowledge nessesary to do it. So you have to get that knowledge and keep it which means building warships. Not just a few and not every 20-30 years. Then there is Investing in the R&D very, very expensive.

Over all its about cost unless the PN (or rather the phillippines government) wants to invest much more money into the defense then.....

There is no point. Do you Always have to have Rusty no but think about it this way. The USCG has vessels that in most nations would be so well armed as to be Naval vessels now you will have these.

Which really they are perfect for the needs of your country at present.

why do we always need to buy old junks from other countries, why not make our own at least it will be brand new
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Well you have to think about it this way. Building a Warship is different from a commerical vessel. There is alot of specialized knowledge nessesary to do it. So you have to get that knowledge and keep it which means building warships. Not just a few and not every 20-30 years. Then there is Investing in the R&D very, very expensive.

Over all its about cost unless the PN (or rather the phillippines government) wants to invest much more money into the defense then.....

There is no point. Do you Always have to have Rusty no but think about it this way. The USCG has vessels that in most nations would be so well armed as to be Naval vessels now you will have these.

Which really they are perfect for the needs of your country at present.
I don;t know about the state of the ship building industry of Philippines, but If they are capable of building large commercial vessels, then they should be able to build the hull of large patrol crafts and OPVs.
 

Belesari

New Member
Of that i dont doubt. Its the inner systems and such i dont know if they are ready for yet. Naval vessels arent freighters.

I don;t know about the state of the ship building industry of Philippines, but If they are capable of building large commercial vessels, then they should be able to build the hull of large patrol crafts and OPVs.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Of that i dont doubt. Its the inner systems and such i dont know if they are ready for yet. Naval vessels arent freighters.
True, but you have to start step by step, Philippines should start building hulls for ships with the vision that in the long run they will be making all the components themselves.
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
I think the only way local shipbuilders can built naval vessels at this stage is if a foreign contract is awarded by the government and the initial one would be built in that country and any succeding orders will eventually be built locally just like what PT PAL of Indonesia recently accomplished on the additional Makassar Class LPD that originated from S.korea...
 

ed famie

New Member
I think the only way local shipbuilders can built naval vessels at this stage is if a foreign contract is awarded by the government and the initial one would be built in that country and any succeding orders will eventually be built locally just like what PT PAL of Indonesia recently accomplished on the additional Makassar Class LPD that originated from S.korea...
I agree, Just like the Russia and France they make four France maid Mistral ship, two will be made in France and two will be made in Russia with technology transfer to Russia. It would be better if the Phil. Government and Phil. Navy follow that kind of procedure cause it would enhance the skill of Filipino ship builder plus the advantage of technology transfer
 

Belesari

New Member
Yea start small something like light coastal patrol boats which you need a number of build up from there.

I think the only way local shipbuilders can built naval vessels at this stage is if a foreign contract is awarded by the government and the initial one would be built in that country and any succeding orders will eventually be built locally just like what PT PAL of Indonesia recently accomplished on the additional Makassar Class LPD that originated from S.korea...
 

ed famie

New Member
DFA Secretary Albert Del Rosario recently held a meeting with US Secretay of State Hilary Clinton in Washington D.C. regarding the escalating tensions with China...

U.S. Says It Will Provide Hardware to Philippines - Defense News
I also read it in Inquirer.com news that U.S. will provide arms needed to defend its territory, but she also add that we must pay for it, its not for free, the only consolation is that they will help in us buying it in a friendly price
 

gforce

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #139
New US, old PH ships test synergy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
5:36 am | Monday, June 27th, 2011

It’s a show of force that’s likely to raise the hackles of China—and elicit chuckles from the Asian military giant as well.

State-of-the-art US missile destroyers will join aging Philippine warships for naval exercises this week in what has been touted as a timely show of unity as tensions with China escalate over a maritime dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

The 11-day exercise—named Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (Carat)—start on Tuesday off the southwest Philippine island of Palawan in the Sulu Sea, close to the disputed waters of the West Philippines Sea, where Manila has complained of increasing Chinese provocation.

The United States will send 800 sailors and two guided missile destroyers, plus a diving and salvage ship, to the 17th staging of the Carat exercise, the US military said in a press release.

Highlighting the disparity between the military capabilities of the two allies, the Philippine Navy said it would deploy two World War II-vintage vessels armed only with cannon for the exercise.

About 300 Philippine sailors will take part, according to the Navy spokesperson, Lt. Noel Cadigal.

For its part, China plans to hold in July an initial sea trial of its first aircraft carrier—a refurbished aircraft carrier of the defunct Soviet Union.

Analysts say the Chinese aircraft carrier’s move toward operability raises the stakes for Washington, long the undisputed naval power in Asia, and jangles the edgy nerves of China’s neighbors, which are upset with what they see as Beijing’s more assertive posture in enforcing claims to disputed territories.

Some comfort for PH

But while the Philippine Navy may be no match to its Chinese counterpart in a one-on-one engagement, the annual Carat exercise nevertheless offers Manila some comfort shortly after it appealed to its long-time ally and former colonial power for help in containing Beijing’s aggressive stance, according to some analysts.

“The exercises show that the Philippines and the US are still very close. They (Philippine leaders) hope that the Chinese will be impressed by this,” said Ben Lim, a political science professor at Ateneo de Manila University.

“It will give the Philippines confidence in regard to diplomatic leverage. When they meet the Chinese again in peaceful negotiations, they can say, ‘The Americans are on our side,’” Lim added.

Nevertheless, both Manila and Washington have emphasized that the Carat exercise is part of long-term US efforts to help the Philippine military.

“The US and Philippine navies have a long history of working together, and exercises like (these) provide a great venue for us to hone our skills and increase our interoperability,” said Capt. David Welch, the US Carat commander.

Intrusions

The Philippines has in recent months complained of Chinese actions in the strategically vital and potentially resource-rich body of water.

Manila refers to the body of water as the West Philippine Sea, while Beijing calls it the South China Sea.

The Philippines and China—along with Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam—claim all or part of the West Philippine Sea, and the area has long been considered one of Asia’s potential military flash points.

President Aquino this month accused China of inciting at least seven incidents recently, including one in which a Chinese vessel allegedly opened fire on Filipino fishermen.

Mr. Aquino accused China of breaking international law by intruding within the Philippines’ 370-kilometer (200-nautical-mile) economic exclusion zone, and called on the United States for help in defending his country’s claims against China.

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario last week traveled to Washington, where he won some backing from the United States as the superpower offered to help modernize the cash-strapped Philippine military.

“We are determined and committed to supporting the defense of the Philippines,” US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told a joint news conference with Del Rosario.

No specifics were immediately announced, but Del Rosario later said that US authorities had vowed to help boost the Philippines’ intelligence capabilities in the disputed waters.

US-Viet exercises

Over the past year, China has seen a flare-up in territorial spats not only with the Philippines but also with Vietnam and Japan—all of which have turned to Washington for support.

The United States is scheduled to stage similar exercises with Vietnam next month, although it has insisted they too have nothing to do with tensions in the disputed area.

Vietnam has made accusations similar to those of the Philippines over alleged Chinese actions in the West Philippine Sea recently. Hanoi refers to the body of water as the East Sea.

Amid the spike in tensions, China has repeatedly said it wants to solve the territorial disputes peacefully while warning the United States it has no role to play in the spats. AFP
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
BRP Gregorio Del Pilar PF-15 has entered the waters of the Philippines today and will officially arrive inside Manila Bay on sunday morning, Aug. 21st after completing almost 1 month of journey across the Pacific departing on July 18th from Coast Guard Island Alameda with brief stopovers in Hawaii and Guam...
 
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