Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
These cutters are old, the Philippines should be able to get them at almost no cost.... I believe Uruguay is also interested in possibly getting a few of the Hamilton cutters... Of the twelve, some are still in pretty good shape, and some aren't... Choose wisely...

YES, your right about being old cutters but it would still be better than the current flagship BRP Rahaj Humabon PF-11 which was built in 1943...Only 4 of the class cutters are scheduled for decommissioning in FY 2011 namely USCGS Jarvis WHEC-725, Rush WHEC-723, Hamilton WHEC-715 and Chase WHEC-718...Hopefully we get the one that is in the best condition! :cool:

 

swerve

Super Moderator
Sturm was right about what I meant. The Makasar class should be cheap to buy, & much cheaper to run than an old, maintenance-heavy ex-USN LPD, which is the nearest alternative in terms of purchase price.

I can also see the value of the Hamilton class, for replacing some of the very old patrol ships the PN has.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Royal New Zealand Navy Protector-class OPV cost $25,000,000 per ship (complete with parts and maintenance) and it is a lightly-armed helicopter-carrying patrol ship w/ 4 RHIBs.
The RNZN 55m IPV's cost about US$25m (NZD 35m) each to commission. The 85m OPV's cost roughly in the US$60m range (NZD 90m).
 

Sea Toby

New Member
YES, your right about being old cutters but it would still be better than the current flagship BRP Rahaj Humabon PF-11 which was built in 1943...Only 4 of the class cutters are scheduled for decommissioning in FY 2011 namely USCGS Jarvis WHEC-725, Rush WHEC-723, Hamilton WHEC-715 and Chase WHEC-718...Hopefully we get the one that is in the best condition! :cool:

The US Coast Guard have 12, and 4 are being decommissioned this year, with another 4 expected to retire next year, and the last 4 the next. The fifth of seven Bertholf NSC cutters was funded during FY2011, with one more planned during the next two years. Two have already been commissioned, with a third launched---- to undergo her sea trials later this year. While I am not certain, the fourth Bertholf has had her keel laid down or soon will...

If the Hamiltons are good enough to do EEZ fishery patrols in the rough and tumble Bering Sea, see Discovery channel the Deadliest Catch series, I would assume they are good enough for the Philippines...
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
The US Coast Guard have 12, and 4 are being decommissioned this year, with another 4 expected to retire next year, and the last 4 the next. The fifth of seven Bertholf NSC cutters was funded during FY2011, with one more planned during the next two years. Two have already been commissioned, with a third launched---- to undergo her sea trials later this year. While I am not certain, the fourth Bertholf has had her keel laid down or soon will...

If the Hamiltons are good enough to do EEZ fishery patrols in the rough and tumble Bering Sea, see Discovery channel the Deadliest Catch series, I would assume they are good enough for the Philippines...
DEFINITELY, that's for sure...It would also boost the patrol capability and morale of PN personnel onced the aquisitioned is complete and the ship is formally turnover this year which will be designated as the new flagship. :cool:
 
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HKP

New Member
I think its better for the PN just to acquire new ships from local builders there, some say it will be more expensive but its new and the cheap used ones can also be expensive later to maintain. Plus acquiring within local ship industry will create more jobs for Filipinos who in turn will pay more taxes, etc. It also will be better for the PN to start thinking buying mini subs for part of its external defense. As you can see the sinking of the South Korean ship by an identified sub was just an example how vulnerable surface ships are and how effective submarines are, that sub did not only cut the SK ship into half and killed almost all of its crew but also got away with it still unidentified although most likely the NORKOR did it. So the PN in near future as part of its modernization should have at least 2 to 4 mini or midsize subs. Vietnam I believe has 2 full size diesel class from Russia.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
As you can see the sinking of the South Korean ship by an identified sub was just an example how vulnerable surface ships are and how effective submarines are, that sub did not only cut the SK ship into half and killed almost all of its crew but also got away with it still unidentified although most likely the NORKOR did it. So the PN in near future as part of its modernization should have at least 2 to 4 mini or midsize subs. Vietnam I believe has 2 full size diesel class from Russia.
The priority now for the PN should be in developing a better capability to patrol it's vast waters, by getting newer ships to replace the current fleet with better sensors and seakeeping, rather than worry about ASW. Adding just the basics needed for ASW - a bow mounted passive/active sonar and 2 triple torpedo mounts - will significantly raise the price of any new OPV or frigate. The Philippines at present is not faced with a submarine threat. One of the main challenges facing the PN is the need to better patrol its vast waters against foreign enroachment/illegal fishing.
 

HKP

New Member
The priority now for the PN should be in developing a better capability to patrol it's vast waters, by getting newer ships to replace the current fleet with better sensors and seakeeping, rather than worry about ASW. Adding just the basics needed for ASW - a bow mounted passive/active sonar and 2 triple torpedo mounts - will significantly raise the price of any new OPV or frigate. The Philippines at present is not faced with a submarine threat. One of the main challenges facing the PN is the need to better patrol its vast waters against foreign enroachment/illegal fishing.
I agree, the PN needs maybe some hundreds of fast patrol boats armed with some hi tech gadgets and some missiles. Again why is it that PN or the defense department not tapping the local shipbuilding industry there. The need for submarines should for the long term goal. Its true that the vasts shoreline and 7000 islands is a challenge for the ill equip PN. Some of these islands maybe already occupied by terrorists, smugglers, pirates, etc. And the government seem to act too slow because of its traditional bureaucracy, which is another problem, they have to be creative there and find ways to improve and find solutions.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I agree, the PN needs maybe some hundreds of fast patrol boats armed with some hi tech gadgets and some missiles.
Forget the missiles, for the moment a class of gun armed OPVs with radar, heli-deck, etc, would be great. It all depends I suppose on the availibility of funding and political will. The PN's sister services also have their wish list's and will be competing for their share of funding.
 

T.C.P da Devil

New Member
Forget the missiles, for the moment a class of gun armed OPVs with radar, heli-deck, etc, would be great. It all depends I suppose on the availibility of funding and political will. The PN's sister services also have their wish list's and will be competing for their share of funding.
The Bangladeshi navy recently procured Castle class OPVs, they were heavily upgrade. They have all the capabilities you mentioned, the PN should look at ships similar to this. BTW the Castle class have no missiles but the BN plans to upgrade it with missiles soon as it plans to turn them into fully capable missile corvettes.(the castle class are designated as corvettes in the BN)

http://www.bdmilitary.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=328&Itemid=118
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
The PN already have the 3 former HMS Peacock class corvette that was aquired back in 1997 when Hong Kong was released under the British govn't administration...There has been plans to upgrade all 3 with missile capability, but due to funding constraint the program has been delayed many times...

 

Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The priority now for the PN should be in developing a better capability to patrol it's vast waters, by getting newer ships to replace the current fleet with better sensors and seakeeping, rather than worry about ASW. Adding just the basics needed for ASW - a bow mounted passive/active sonar and 2 triple torpedo mounts - will significantly raise the price of any new OPV or frigate. The Philippines at present is not faced with a submarine threat. One of the main challenges facing the PN is the need to better patrol its vast waters against foreign enroachment/illegal fishing.
The Hamiltons were fitted with sonars and ASW torpedo tubes during the 80's and then removed in mid-90's. In theory they could be mounted again once transferred. I believe that 5 of the Hamiltons had Harpoon aswell for a period of time before being removed at the sametime as the ASW equpiment.
Cheers
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
The Hamiltons were fitted with sonars and ASW torpedo tubes during the 80's and then removed in mid-90's. In theory they could be mounted again once transferred. I believe that 5 of the Hamiltons had Harpoon aswell for a period of time before being removed at the sametime as the ASW equpiment.
Cheers
Funding for the PN is of course a major issue but I really don't see the point in operating a vessel the size of the Hamiliton and arming her just with guns, unless there are plans to fit her with missiles at a later date. Some of the Hamiltons I think are still fitted with Phlanx.
 

Belesari

New Member
What about a couple Perry class FFG-7's?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry_class_frigate"]Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate - Wikipedia, the free [email protected]@[email protected]@/wiki/File:USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg" class="image" title="USS Oliver Hazard Perry"><img alt="USS Oliver Hazard Perry" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg/300px-USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg"@@[email protected]@commons/thumb/f/f3/USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg/300px-USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg[/ame]

Manning requirements are about the same as the Hamiltons.

The hamiltons have much longer range though and probably handle better in rough seas.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
they could just wait a couple years and try and get an Adelaide or 2 off Australia, more capable in my eyes.
The Adelaide's/Perry's are much more capable than the Hamilton's, being frontline combatants, but what will the operating and mantainance costs be?

As an alternative to OPVs or something larger for use in the south, something like the CB-90 would be ideal for patroling work around the islands to prevent arms shipments and smuggling.
 
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ManilaBoy

Banned Member
What about a couple Perry class FFG-7's?

Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manning requirements are about the same as the Hamiltons.

The hamiltons have much longer range though and probably handle better in rough seas.

YES, much longer at 14,000 nautical miles with a 45 day endurance compared to the O.H.Perry class which is only capable of 4,500 NM (5,200 at 20 knots)... :cool:

USS Stark listing heavily after being struck by 2 exocet anti-ship missiles from an Iraqi warplane back in 1987 in the Persian Gulf...
 

Sea Toby

New Member
The Adelaide's/Perry's are much more capable than the Hamilton's, being frontline combatants, but what will the operating and mantainance costs be?

As an alternative to OPVs or something larger for use in the south, something like the CB-90 would be ideal for patroling work around the islands to prevent arms shipments and smuggling.
The Hamiltons have diesels for economical patrolling, the Perry's don't as they are fitted with only gas turbines... One of the reasons why the US Navy wishes to replace the Perrys with the LCSs, both Independence and Freedom classes, is to save considerably on fuel...
 
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