Pak may get SU-30

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mysterious

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My take on this:

I dont think PAF is nuts to buy the same aircraft as its main opponent! Likely purchases; second-hand F-16s, Typhoon or Gripen (and if China's willing to sell J-10s then that might be it). End of story. :smokingc:
 
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Aussie Digger

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Me either, the SU-30 is a good aircraft. I just don't think it very likely that PAF will be able to buy this aircraft.
 

adsH

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Aussie Digger said:
Me either, the SU-30 is a good aircraft. I just don't think it very likely that PAF will be able to buy this aircraft.
Its too expensive to maintain it overhauls should cost abit too every 400 -500 hours !!
 

Soldier

New Member
adsH said:
Aussie Digger said:
Me either, the SU-30 is a good aircraft. I just don't think it very likely that PAF will be able to buy this aircraft.
Its too expensive to maintain it overhauls should cost abit too every 400 -500 hours !!

What are the basis of your this conclusion ADSH? I do not agree with you at all....this is why i will like you to put more light on it.
 
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Aussie Digger

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China, Pak Joint Venture to Produce JF-17


(Source: Press Trust of India; issued Apr. 27, 2004)


LONDON --- A joint venture between China and Pakistan will begin initial production of 16 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder fighters in 2006, according to a report.

The joint venture would be between Chengdu Aircraft Industry in China and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), the Janes’ Defence Weekly reported today.

First deliveries to Pakistan Air Force will start mid-2006, Air Vice Marshal Lateef told the weekly.

Eight aircraft would be delivered to China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force, and eight to the PAF, four of which would be built entirely in Chengdu and four assemble at PAC’s Kamra facility. The PAF has a requirement for 150 JF-17s.

According to the report, currently two prototypes of the FC-1/JF-17 are flying. The first took to the air on August 25, 2003, with the maiden flight of the second prototype on April 9, both from the Chengdu facility in China.

Two Pakistani test pilots flew the initial prototype for the first time on April 7, beginning regular participation in the flight test program.

The first two prototypes will explore the aircraft’s operational flight envelope and the operation of its subsystems. A third prototype is planned for system integration and certification of the avionics suite and weapons fit.

The Chengdu Aircraft Industry and the PAC are in equal partnership and jointly developing and producing the fighter, the report said.

The JF-17/FC-1 is described as a multi-role attack fighter with delta wings, a conventional tail and a fly-by-wire flight control system.

-ends-
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_001525.shtml

This article is one reason I doubt the PAF will get the Su-30. The other is that India is Russia'a single biggest customer, and Russia will not want to upset India. Cheers.
 

tahir_kheshgi

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  • #26
yea very valid points
but then speculations keep going on and on haan? :)
hey i personally love SU30.. i think its a fantastic fighter... but i didnt really feel that good to hear this "rumour" (classed by your lot)! Mainly because of the fact that Pakistan can really enhance its relationship with France by buying Rafales. i Personally think Rafale is the way forward for pak. $2.5b has already been given to paf. you can easily get 40 rafales for $2.5b. push it to $3b and you can include all the trainning and etc. Musharaf has already mentioned that he is willing to provide more money, if required!! PAF needs to look into 4th/5th generation fighters rather than just looking into buying old planes.
Rafale is the way forward. it will outclass any indian fighter, including SU30. the only think it will lack in, is the manouverability against SU30, but i dont think Rafales avionics and radar systems would let the situation go into a dogfight.
PAK should go for rafales thats what i think personally. NO typhoons, No mirages no F-16s (even though i love F-16s i would never trust them american ****)!
 

mysterious

New Member
I suppose you will pay for the Rafaels from your own pocket? Its 'the most' expensive aircraft which is on the contenders list for PAF's next generation frontline fighter jet. $2.5b isnt much at all when considering Rafaels. The training, the logistics setup, etc would itself cost a lot. You can just about get 20-25 Rafaels in $2.5b man! Not worth it. Go for Typhoon, Gripen or J-10.
 
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Aussie Digger

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Given the choice, I think PAF should opt for the Eurofighter. It will be the most capable of the 4th gen western fighters (F-22 is 5th gen) and should be the most supportable, given it will probably be manufactured in larger numbers than Gripen or Rafale.
 

rabirizvi

Member
but isnt the Ef-2000 in the same league as of rafael when u compare the price tag. I mean if ppl think that rafael is too expensive for PAF then same goes for typhoon. how low will the price go as there are many countries who are likely to opt for EF....?
 
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Aussie Digger

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A larger fleet of aircraft generally tends to drive down the cost of the aircraft (hence the importance attached to the JSF program). Rafale has to date lost every aircraft acquisition competition it has entered (bar French Air Force/Navy requirements). Typhoon not only has a production order already roughly double Gripen or Rafale, but has won additional international orders (Austria) and is highly placed to win others (Singapore notably). This should ensure the basic purchase price of the Typhoon comes down and it's through life supportability should be greater. Cheers.
 

tahir_kheshgi

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  • #31
exactly the unit price of each plane comes down...
but hey Aussie digger could u tell me more about rafale's failures... cuz till now i heard its a fantastic plane!!
Aussie digger to be honest if i was in PAF shoes i would never get JSF even if it was offered! for one obvious reason... you never know these back stabbing americans.. one min they might offer it.. the next day they wont give us the parts, weapons for the aircraft, which makes it compeltly useless fighter
i think PAF should invest a lot of money on Jf-17 but at the same time they have to get a 4th/5th generation fighter! i.e. Rafale (if it is as successful as french say it is), Typhoon or SU30 ;)
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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tahir_kheshgi said:
exactly the unit price of each plane comes down...
but hey Aussie digger could u tell me more about rafale's failures... cuz till now i heard its a fantastic plane!!
Aussie digger to be honest if i was in PAF shoes i would never get JSF even if it was offered! for one obvious reason... you never know these back stabbing americans.. one min they might offer it.. the next day they wont give us the parts, weapons for the aircraft, which makes it compeltly useless fighter
i think PAF should invest a lot of money on Jf-17 but at the same time they have to get a 4th/5th generation fighter! i.e. Rafale (if it is as successful as french say it is), Typhoon or SU30 ;)
Australia suffered spares and equipment embargoes from both the French and the Swedes - we've never been denied access from the UK or US.

From our perpsective the reverse is the case.
 

tahir_kheshgi

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  • #33
huh? ur saying that Americans let us have the spares and weapons whenever we wanted for F-16s in the past????
 

gf0012-aust

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tahir_kheshgi said:
huh? ur saying that Americans let us have the spares and weapons whenever we wanted for F-16s in the past????

No, not at all, I was just giving a different example of why we woiuld probably think very carefully about buying major assets from France - they screwed us last time.

I'm not sure if the Swedes embargoed us on the current events, but they did for Vietnam.
 

adsH

New Member
tahir_kheshgi said:
huh? ur saying that Americans let us have the spares and weapons whenever we wanted for F-16s in the past????
Tahir, GF is only saying that Australia suffered from the people that pakistan trusts and has trusted!!
 

tahir_kheshgi

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  • #37
right right..
i get u lot
but france isnt as bad as americans man
Pakistan has got the largest fleet of Mirages for a reason you know.
if pak gets any f-16s block 50/52s then i would b happy in the sence that these fighters are very high tech and will be a huge boost for PAF. but at the same time i would b scared at all times that if something goes wrong with these planes.. the parts will b embargoed as well as the weapons wen required!
 

adsH

New Member
tahir_kheshgi said:
right right..
i get u lot
but france isnt as bad as americans man
Pakistan has got the largest fleet of Mirages for a reason you know.
if pak gets any f-16s block 50/52s then i would b happy in the sence that these fighters are very high tech and will be a huge boost for PAF. but at the same time i would b scared at all times that if something goes wrong with these planes.. the parts will b embargoed as well as the weapons wen required!
thats true but when ever pak has had a conflict with india Frace has always stoped parts supply and supoort for there french equipment. by buying US stuff now pak can assure them selves that they would get the training and (i hope spares production abilites) under the MNNA status and the assureance that Pak would be supplied with the spares aswell as stockpile of other weapons and spare-parts!!
 

tahir_kheshgi

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  • #39
yea if there is some sort of 'transfer of tech' to make spares then yes!! why not!!! go for F-16s.. but untill that... i wouldnt go for it

can u elaborate more on the MNNA status? i dont know anything about i,
cheers
 

gf0012-aust

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France stopped the supply of Miarge parts to Australia, and we built them over here, so we had the capcity to tool up if required, we then sold 50 of them to Pakistan. My understanding is that France has embargoed parts for you as well.

France embargoed in the last 25 years, argentina, peru, chile, south africa, israel, australia, taiwan, various countries in the middle east...

their track record is as long and as complicated as the USA's.
 
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