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Official Chengdu J-20 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Air Force & Aviation' started by myskykk, Sep 30, 2005.

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  1. myskykk

    myskykk New Member

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    I found at a official websetAny relation with Mig-1.44 + F-35 + F-23 ?????
     
  2. Red aRRow

    Red aRRow Forum Bouncer

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Its like the J-10 and the F-22 had a love child. But seriously I think its difficult to have some concrete shape of the secret J-xx...hence lots of artist impressions flying around.
     
  3. Hussain

    Hussain New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Let's hope that the F10 and F1C are able to be produced successfully before putting bets on the JXX.
     
  4. corzair

    corzair New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    It looks like another F10 development

    as the J-XX pics i've scene on the net seams to much more like the
    F22

    The chinese are making alot of concepts at the moment

    theres even an off shoot of the fc1 that looks like an fc1 fuselage with a delta wing and canards
     
  5. tphuang

    tphuang Super Moderator

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    J-10 is already in pla service.
     
  6. Brit

    Brit New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    ? Not fully operational????? And with only 200 engines on order, it hardly looks like it'll be the big deal it's often made out to be.
     
  7. tphuang

    tphuang Super Moderator

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    It has at least one full squadron in service opposite to India. As for engine, it has 154 AL-31FN ordered so far (54 in the first bunch and 100 in July) which is expected to all be delivered before the end of 2006. http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.78/pub_detail.asp

    Depending on what kind of AL-31 variant Russia is willing to offer after this delivery, China may choose to order more or stick with WS-10A which actually has better thrust and T/W ratio than the current AL-31FN.

    If you can read Chinese or feel like translating from traditional Chinese to english using babelfish, check this kanwa article http://www.kanwa.com/mrdt/showpl.php?id=207

    In the bottom, it says China is dicussing with Salyut for a AL-31FMN variant which will hopefully have 15000 kg thrust. Note, AL-31FM has 13700 kg thrust.

    J-10 will be the work horse in plaaf, there is no question about that. Especially since China has stopped building J-11A and stopped purchase su-30mkks.
     
  8. Brit

    Brit New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Tphuang,
    I think I read the Kanwa article in English already (brought a copy of the mag in HK). Kanwa too express the notion that the J-10 may be loosing ground to the J-17 as the future PLAAF workhorse. Kanwa estimate the J-17 to be about 30% cheaper. Also, they speculate, quite reasonably, that the use of the AL-31 engine on the J-10 is tied to purchases of Su-27/30 aircraft, making the idea that China will not buy/produce further Sukhois less than likely(?).

    Chinese engines like WS-10 appear some way off.
     
  9. SABRE

    SABRE Super Moderator Verified Defense Pro

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  10. MIGleader

    MIGleader New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    none knows what j-xx looks like. the internet concepts thet have been put out are either mig-1.44 rip-offs, su-47 rip-offs, or f-22 rip-offs.

    but back on topic...
    the chinese evidently want to put the al-41 on the j-xx, along with some indegedous avionics and weaons suites. the radar is uncetain, either an isreali, russian, or indegedous. it better be good thoguh!!!!
     
  11. SABRE

    SABRE Super Moderator Verified Defense Pro

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Yeah thats what i forgot to mention....realy no one knows what J-XX look like. Even the model shown at the defence exhibition may be changed as the project goes under way. So if any of u ppl find any pic on J-XX (at this moment) they are just mere asumptions & children at play.

    I thought China was testing TVC WS-10 for J-XX.

    Radar is said to be AESA but the version is unkown. China is said to be developing its own AESA.
     
  12. tphuang

    tphuang Super Moderator

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    yeah, I read that article too, but that article was based on the premise that china might be purchasing 500 RD-93. It looks like JF-17 might not be available for another 3 years. By then, there will be 150 more J-10s (using the pace of 50 per year). I personally think the number 500 is quite alarming, since it means WS-13A will probably never be used on JF-17. Either way, considering China has promised to purchase 250 JF-17 and PAF committed to 150, 600 engines for that really is quite reasonable. Let's not forget JF-17 is suppose to be the plane that China is marketing to poor countries. As for WS-10, it is almost complete. The current estimation is that WS-10A will start production sometimes late this year or next year. There was a problem with it in 2004, but it has apparently being resolved. As for sukhoi, China will definitely buy more sukhoi, but higher quality sukhoi than the garbage it is getting right now.

    As for J-XX, I remember JDW posting that J-XX is in wind tunnel testing stage in 2003. Now, if we use J-10's develop as a barometer. I'm guessing the first prototype will come out in 2008 and probably fly in 2009 and it will go through pre-production testing starting from 2012 and join service in 2015.

    As for engine, China is going to most likely use AL-41 at least in the beginning, like it is using AL-31 on J-10 right now and then some indigenous engine later when it can match AL-41 in performance. I really don't think 2 WS-10A can produce enough thrust for J-XX to compete with the likes of PAK FA and F-22.
     
  13. Pursuit Curve

    Pursuit Curve New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Oh man, I don't know if you all are old enough to remember the endless artist renditions of the F117 or the Soviet "Secret" projects that the pentagon would publish to get the pucker factor up and get more funding for the military.

    When the day comes that any country puts an aircraft in the air that can rival the F22, than I willl start to believe the rumours and hyperbole surrounding the percieved chinese military secrets, brought to us all by the paranoid and reaching for straws press conferences of Donald "Where is the weapons of mass destruction" Rumsfeld and company.
     
  14. Elite-Pilot

    Elite-Pilot Banned Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Dear Brothers,

    I have read that the WS-10A engine was a success...is this correct?can anyone confirm this?

    Mod edit: Path: Please avoid using smiles in your post when there is no need for them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2005
  15. tphuang

    tphuang Super Moderator

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    it's posted on an official chinese newspaper that a new engine has finished 4 month of endurance testing. It didnd't mention WS-10A specifically, but clearly it is WS-10A due to the timeframe and the description of the engine. That's considered to be the final test before certificaiton, so production should begin sometime late this year.
     
  16. PLA2025

    PLA2025 New Member

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    that's not an official pic of the J-XX!

    China's upcoming 1st 5th generation stealth fighter will have no canards and the design resembles much more of a F-22 than you actually would think. The thrust nozzles might look more conventionally but it will have no canards. The J-XX is at the start of its development and hard to forsee how it would perform in 2015 or later. But it is estimated that the J-XX would be more advanced than the EF Typhoon but less than the F/A-22 Raptor. It might closely like a mix of the F-35 JSF and the EF Typhoon when Shenyang succeeds to produce the J-XX as China's most advanced fighter jet while keeping it at a "relatively" low price for a 5th gen fighter (maybe between 80-120 mio.US$ per unit) compared to a Raptor's 250 mio.US$!
     
  17. ReDgUaRd008

    ReDgUaRd008 New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    Well MiG is part of the J-10 project. The 1.42/1.44/Twin engine J-10 is going to the PLAN for their aircraft carrier AKA J-10C. J-XX is being worked on by the company that makes the J-11. So its two different projects. J-10C for Navy and J-XX for 5th Gen Fighter
     
  18. PLA2025

    PLA2025 New Member

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    Right two different projects by two different companies

    The project J-10C, possibly a twin engine version of the J-10 for the PLAN to become China's first indigeniously built carrier jet is under development or even construction by Chengdu. It is still unclear whether it will have vector thrust nozzles like the Su-37 Terminator or not. The J-10C would become a direct counterpart to the current F/A-18E Super Hornet.

    The project J-XX by Shenyang, either designated as J-12, J-13 or even J-14?, will become China's first 5th gen fighter for its PLAAF. It might be more a air superiority fighter while the F/A-22 Raptor is more of an allrounder although it was meant to be an air superiority fighter when it was still the YF-22. But things might also change for China's J-XX since nowadays fighter jets usually are designed to have both good air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities. But jets like the French Rafale or the JSF are like 60% A2G and 40% A2G. If China really intends to obtain and get the license to assemble the Su-33 Carrier Flanker (in the case they want to field an aircraft carrier within the next 10 years), those Su-33 might be designated as J-12 while the J-XX more likely to be designated J-14 if they get the license for the Su-35 Super Flanker or even the Su-37 Terminator as J-13.
    But this is just my personal theory of future designation of PLAAF jets. So please don't blame me:gun if the PLAAF and PLAN has other plans :D
     
  19. YasirKarim

    YasirKarim New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    J-XX STEALTHY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT


    According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).

    PROGRAMME

    According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.

    Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.

    As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia -LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

    Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF and India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft).

    From:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp


    Thanks & Regards
    Yasir Karim
     
  20. YasirKarim

    YasirKarim New Member

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    Re: China J-XX official graph

    A possible design proposal for China’s next generation stealthy fighter aircraft. The design resembles certain design features of the U.S. F/A-22. The real design may differ significantly.

    from:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp

    Thanks & Regards
    Yasir Karim