New turkish tank !!???

surpreme

Member
I'm impress with the new Turkish tank. Turkey still lack technology but are working on it better than some countries. The Turks has nice military but needs some more touch up on its forces. This new Turkey tank looks nice I would have though that they would have done this in the 90's. The Turkey economy is doing well look at it investment in the balkans and it does have a friendly business economy. Overall the Turkey Armed Forces still needs work to do. When will this tank be in mass production alot nation will jump on it.
 
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Krijger

New Member
This looks very interesting.
The ability to produce a major weapons system like an MBT is a big status symbol for a country. It doesn't matter that foreign technology is bring used, or where it came from, because this is just the first step in a long process. By the time the next generation of MBTs comes around (whenever that is), Turkey will have the experience and the technology to produce a competitive indigenous tank. Not many countries can say that!
 

Krijger

New Member
Why do so many modern tanks have shot traps under the turret? The Abrams and Challenger aren't too bad, but the Leopard 2A6, Merkava and (going by the images) the Turkish tank have enormous shot traps under the front end of the turret.
Is it simply the case that APFSDS ammunition tends not to be deflected?
 

Damian90

New Member
In Leopard 2A5/A6/A7 there is no shot trap.



Behind addon wedge NERA armor there is base turret armor.

In fact such thing as underturret shot trap do not exist and is not problem.

Also because modern ammunition rarely deflect, and there is also one more thing. Did You ever seen a tank through other tank sights at even 1,000m's?

Surface of such weak zone is very small and dificult to hit.

Some time ago I made this.



It shows weak zones (red), avarage protected zones (orange) and good protected zones (green) for tanks:

T-72B/T-90 (Object 184/Object 188), Leopard 2A4, Challenger 2, M1A2SEP, T-84M Oplot (Object 478DU10).

It is based on research and different sources, and is as close to reality as possible.

So as You can see, the weak zone under the turret is difficult to hit.
 

Krijger

New Member
Unfortunately, I was unable to open your links, but I think understand what you said about the Leopard turret: that the "wedge" armour was mounted on top of the original "upright" turret armour. Thank you for that!
I realise that the area we are talking about represents a very small target, but I wasn't suggesting that a gunner would aim deliberately for it; however, there's always the chance of a shot going under the edge of the turret. Of course, that theory is negated by the "non-deflection" of modern ammunition, so it doesn't matter.
Thank you once again! I would like to see your analysis of armour protection, so I will try try to open your page again from a different computer.
 

Damian90

New Member
Strange that You was unable to open these links.

Ah one more thing, there is also one more reason why modern ammunition don't deflect from modern armor, this is because modern armors are multiple layers of different materials, these layers are not especially thick, for example the most outer layer, or what we see on Leopard 2 or M1 series is max 40-50mm thick, then there is small airgap and another layers of composite armor. Of course this will slightly vary from one design to another but, general concept is the same.

To be honest I actually seen Leopard 2 composite armor, but... please do not ask for photos, I do not have them anymore. ;)

Also the wedge on newer Leopard 2's, is actually a thin screen of NERA type armor, there are approx 3 layers of NERA in that wedge + another single or double layer behind. Such armor is designed to be penetrated, because it's working mechanism is same as for all types of dynamic protection, it need to be penetrated to defeat projectile by inducting a yaw, increase erosion, change it's penetration path etc.

In fact we actually can't talk about passive protection of modern MBT's, all of them just use different types of dynamic protection, be it multilayer composite armor, that in most cases have a structure similiar to NERA, but seems to use more materials and is more complex in design. Addon NERA modules, ERA or NxRA.

So as I said, the general concept is to let penetrator or shaped charge jet get inside armor structure, so the armor can... well the simplest words are... destroy enemy projectile.
 

madandlucky

New Member
Strange that You was unable to open these links.

Ah one more thing, there is also one more reason why modern ammunition don't deflect from modern armor, this is because modern armors are multiple layers of different materials, these layers are not especially thick, for example the most outer layer, or what we see on Leopard 2 or M1 series is max 40-50mm thick, then there is small airgap and another layers of composite armor. Of course this will slightly vary from one design to another but, general concept is the same.

To be honest I actually seen Leopard 2 composite armor, but... please do not ask for photos, I do not have them anymore. ;)

Also the wedge on newer Leopard 2's, is actually a thin screen of NERA type armor, there are approx 3 layers of NERA in that wedge + another single or double layer behind. Such armor is designed to be penetrated, because it's working mechanism is same as for all types of dynamic protection, it need to be penetrated to defeat projectile by inducting a yaw, increase erosion, change it's penetration path etc.

In fact we actually can't talk about passive protection of modern MBT's, all of them just use different types of dynamic protection, be it multilayer composite armor, that in most cases have a structure similiar to NERA, but seems to use more materials and is more complex in design. Addon NERA modules, ERA or NxRA.

So as I said, the general concept is to let penetrator or shaped charge jet get inside armor structure, so the armor can... well the simplest words are... destroy enemy projectile.

İlk milli tank "Altay" - Teknoloji Videoları - Habertürk Video

You can watch the ceremony from this website...
 

ozi2000

New Member
c1211.hizliresim.com/13/j/fz4lr.jpg

c1211.hizliresim.com/13/j/fz4sp.jpg

c1211.hizliresim.com/13/j/fz4v6.png

youtube.com/watch?v=XW81zjDAOHI&feature=player_embedded

youtube.com/watch?v=4frziRdqN6o

youtube.com/watch?v=Y7meBlZnPxM

youtube.com/watch?v=ZVwv8RQ7CLs&feature=g-u-u

youtube.com/watch?v=KLW5gw9vyv0&feature=related



Its 66 ton tank (one of the heaviest)
speed 72km/h
0-32km/h in 6sec
reverse 32km/h
fire control, mission computer, source codes, gun, armour, thermal and optic electronic all native Turkish
Engine German Renk(for only first bench of 250)
I believe that suspension is Korean
2015 serial production...

Sorry guys I havent passed 10 post threshold so I could not add the ww...
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Turkey’s defense manufacturer, Otokar has submitted its best and final offer to the Turkish government to mass-produce 250 Altay main battle tanks.

Turkey’s Otokar submits offer to mass-produce Altay tanks – Echelon-Defense
It certainly is an ambitious project, and given Turkey's continued use of outdated M-60s in Syria, quite necessary. But it would put Turkey in the uncomfortable shoes of operating 3 MBTs at the same time, since, from what I understand, 250 wouldn't even come close to replacing their massive M-60 fleet.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
One has to ask why they let M60A3 equipped units take the lead in Syria instead of Sabras (which are now being used, too) or Leopard IIA4s.

I assume that 250 are just an initial batch with further orders, probably of an evolved design like with other vehicles, getting placed in the future.

But I also expect the Leopard IIs and Sabras to serve for quite some time and ultimately a reduction in overall tank numbers as replacing all tanks will be too costly.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
It certainly is an ambitious project, and given Turkey's continued use of outdated M-60s in Syria, quite necessary. But it would put Turkey in the uncomfortable shoes of operating 3 MBTs at the same time, since, from what I understand, 250 wouldn't even come close to replacing their massive M-60 fleet.
Three MBTs?

Altay
Leopard 2 (350 A4 upgraded to NG)
Leopard 1 (397 bought: at least 170 upgraded)
M60 (170 rebuilt to M60T, 760 A3 & A1)
M48 (maybe 750 remaining, all upgraded to A5T2 standard)

I think I remember seeing fairly recent (a few years ago) photos of M48A5T2 in Kurdistan, apparently being used as mobile pillboxes. Probably mostly in reserve.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Three MBTs?

Altay
Leopard 2 (350 A4 upgraded to NG)
Leopard 1 (397 bought: at least 170 upgraded)
M60 (170 rebuilt to M60T, 760 A3 & A1)
M48 (maybe 750 remaining, all upgraded to A5T2 standard)

I think I remember seeing fairly recent (a few years ago) photos of M48A5T2 in Kurdistan, apparently being used as mobile pillboxes. Probably mostly in reserve.
My mistake. I didn't realize they still used Leo-1s or M-48s. Well this is Russian-level clusterfuck in terms of number of types.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
History. Turkey relied on hand-me-downs from NATO allies for many years, so got what was available, not what it wanted. Some of those tanks were part of the CFE reductions: richer countries had to cut numbers, so passed on surplus M60, Leopard 1,etc. to poorer countries to replace M47 or even M24s.

Same for Greece, which has Leopard 2A6 bought new, & secondhand Leopard 2A4, Leopard 1 & M48A5 (both heavily upgraded by Greece), & M60A3. Last I heard there were hundreds of M60 in storage awaiting disposal. I remember when Greece had M18, M24, M47, M48 & AMX-30 in service.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
History. Turkey relied on hand-me-downs from NATO allies for many years, so got what was available, not what it wanted. Some of those tanks were part of the CFE reductions: richer countries had to cut numbers, so passed on surplus M60, Leopard 1,etc. to poorer countries to replace M47 or even M24s.

Same for Greece, which has Leopard 2A6 bought new, & secondhand Leopard 2A4, Leopard 1 & M48A5 (both heavily upgraded by Greece), & M60A3. Last I heard there were hundreds of M60 in storage awaiting disposal. I remember when Greece had M18, M24, M47, M48 & AMX-30 in service.
Swerve, I don't know much about their new Altay. What's your take on the Turkish MBT? How does it compare with leading MBTs of this day? Can we safely call it a 3rd generation MBT? It's always risky when a country develops their first tank ever, just look at the circus surrounding the Arjun in India.
 
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