Marine Nationale Discussions and Updates

JackGr

New Member
There are rumours that FREMM will also be Greece's new frigate.Probably the AAW version.Nothing is certain just rumours but I think it's one of the best choices.Especially the capability of Aster 30 over the Aegean is a huge bonus for its owner.
 

contedicavour

New Member
There are rumours that FREMM will also be Greece's new frigate.Probably the AAW version.Nothing is certain just rumours but I think it's one of the best choices.Especially the capability of Aster 30 over the Aegean is a huge bonus for its owner.
Indeed. Besides, Greece will profit from a price war between France and Italy to see who will build/help build the FREMMs. What a shame the consortium fell apart when it came to exporting the ships. The French have the advantage of having started construction earlier (though the Italian shipyards will start very shortly), the Italians have the advantage that the first FREMMs soon to be built will already be AAW FREMMs with Aster 30 and active EMPAR with the ESD (extended self defence) version.

cheers
 

JackGr

New Member
I believe that one ship at least will be built in Greece,or there will be proposals so that this happen.Also I believe France has the advantage,because Greece has more ties in terms of military industry with them (Mirage etc).
 

contedicavour

New Member
I believe that one ship at least will be built in Greece,or there will be proposals so that this happen.Also I believe France has the advantage,because Greece has more ties in terms of military industry with them (Mirage etc).
Actually all 4 to 6 FREMMs (but for the 1st) are likely to be built in Greek shipyards, although most components (turbines, sensors and weapons) would be imported.
Greece has close military ties with several European countries. Even if we restrict to naval equipment, its subs and 4 Meko 200 FFGs are German, the bulk of its FFGs are ex Dutch Kortenaer, its latest AOR is Italian Etna, and for the FACs you'll see a mix of German, French, British (Vosper) and Danish designs... so nothing's for sure.
If we look at the requirement however, AAW FFGs in the range of 600 million euro per ship, the ship and sensor suite that comes closest is the FREMM ESD which will be standard for Italian FREMMs. Also, the active EMPAR phased array radar (operational around 2011) is quite an asset.
Let's see.

cheers

PS : Mirage contract was in the 80s. True, modernization to -5 standard has just been done. However expect Typhoons to be ordered after the latest F16s
 

JackGr

New Member
Our military development budget,has 2.8 bn euros registered for new ships and aircraft.So I believe that no more than 2 units (600mn each) can be purchased.
 

youpii

New Member
A-69s and LaFayettes are quite often used in anti-pirarcy and anti-narcotics, missions. Maybe they need more OPVs like Floreals

Marine Nationale is considering Tetral Mistral missile launchers for the Mistral ships.
http://www.meretmarine.com/article_imprimer.cfm?id=105173

As Marine Nationale don't have the money for a 3rd Mistral ship to replace Jeanne d'Arc, why not use half of the existing ones? The ships are large enough to accomodate both the half of the students and peace time missions
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
PS : Mirage contract was in the 80s. True, modernization to -5 standard has just been done. However expect Typhoons to be ordered after the latest F16s
Really??? I would have thought the greeks would have been looking at the F35, especially considering the timeing (im guessing post 2015 at least) and the fact that Turkey has invested in the platform. Going up against VLO you would think they would want parity? (without wanting to get into a F35 vs Typhoon discussion) They both went for F16.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Really??? I would have thought the greeks would have been looking at the F35, especially considering the timeing (im guessing post 2015 at least) and the fact that Turkey has invested in the platform. Going up against VLO you would think they would want parity? (without wanting to get into a F35 vs Typhoon discussion) They both went for F16.
if that was so i would have imagined they would have joined the program like the Turks.

also any idea how the progress of Scalp Naval is going and idea of the first launch
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
if that was so i would have imagined they would have joined the program like the Turks.
That costs money... The HAF is streached ATM, it can still aquire the platform without investing in it. Anyway upgradeing all of its F16's to block 50 standard would be the primary priority and the most productive investment IMHO, which sould serve them well into the ~2020 timeframe, by then F35A's should significantly cheaper. The HAF has half the funding of the TAF IIRC, so makeing every penny count is important.
 

contedicavour

New Member
If it hadn't been for budget issues, the Typhoon had already been selected by the HAF. 60 were to be bought. Lack of budget postponed the whole programme, leaving some space for renegotiation and may be reopening of discussions.

cheers
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
MN probably needs more OPV like the US Coast Guards for these missions and less FREMM.
You realize the MN still has some 15-odd patrol units "below" the Floreal class?

For the JdA replacement, wouldn't it be possible to use the Mistral & Tonnerre for that? Like half the cadets on each ship? Not the best solution but more war-like than a ferry.
And which ship is gonna take the mission of Mistral and Tonnerre while these would be on their annual six-month training cruise?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
You realize the MN still has some 15-odd patrol units "below" the Floreal class?

And which ship is gonna take the mission of Mistral and Tonnerre while these would be on their annual six-month training cruise?
The way round that would be to completely revamp the training programme so that it fitted round the normal operations of the ships, but that would have obvious difficulties, impacting negatively both the cadet training & the functioning of the LHDs. A better solution would be to buy a cheap but smaller & lower-capability ship, e.g. something along the lines of the very cheap Korean-built LPDs bought by Indonesia, though it could be smaller. Have to have a hangar, though.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
A low-end Schelde Enforcer with only the most basic capability outfit would probably fit the bill two.
 
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. A better solution would be to buy a cheap but smaller & lower-capability ship, e.g. something along the lines of the very cheap Korean-built LPDs bought by Indonesia, though it could be smaller. Have to have a hangar, though.
A South Korean built Makassar class LPD would be the perfect replacement for the JDA.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
What about the Monge A601 ? I guess it's seldom used for missile tests now.
They're gonna upgrade Monge in 2009 to track in M51 missile tests.

And i think she's also still in use to track Arianespace launches occasionally.
 
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