kirov class battle cruiser

[rickusn]

"But in more close run situations like midway bait/distractions/decoys can be effective due to naval striking power being grouped into a limited number of missiles/aircraft (and submarines and mines).

So prove it.

Midway surely doesnt.

The battle of Midway was a close thing for the USN and in fact if you adequately research the battle it will refute your assertions of any such factors of "bait/distractions/decoys" utterly and completely.

But like I said I hope this is the Russians idea of how to fight at sea.

It will make the conflict all that much shorter and the outcome preordained and predictable.

What more could USN commanders ask for?

 

[kilo]

What parts of the battle would lead you to believe that Japan's attack on midway hurt America in the winning of battle. America gambled, America won, and Japan's preoccupation with strikes on Midway/rearming and landing from midway strikes allowed it.

 

[contedicavour]

If we leave the Midway discussion aside for a while... my original point was that a new class of heavily armed cruisers in the Russian Navy would not be useful for patrol purposes or for supporting amphibious operations. It would necessarily represent an offensive tool full of cruise missiles with a significant self defence capability (AAW, ASW).
Now, what missions could such a ship do other than leave territorial waters and try to wreck as much havoc as possible / distract as many enemy (ie USN) forces as possible ?
My comparison was more with WW2 German battleships such as Graf Spee or eventually even the Bismarck itself. When they couldn't go offensive, such as the Bismarck's sistership Tirpitz, they were just practice targets for Allied bombers and not much use for defensive purposes.
Soooo in conclusion, I wouldn't see them as suicidal baits but rather as offensive tools built for a flawed strategy. All the more in today's world where satellites can find you anywhere.

cheers

 

[rickusn]

"
What parts of the battle would lead you to believe that Japan's attack on midway hurt America in the winning of battle. America gambled, America won, and Japan's preoccupation with strikes on Midway/rearming and landing from midway strikes allowed it."

You dont undertsand the battle at all.

You need to step back and go study it and then get back to us.

"America gambled":

No it was the Japanese that gambled and lost big.

The USN couldnt have played it any closer to the vest than they did.

 

[Salty Dog]

Peter the Great at sea recently.

Russian Navy Conducts Tactical Missile Drill In Barents Sea

by Staff Writers

Moscow (RIA Novosti) Apr 30, 2008

The nuclear powered missile cruiser Pyotr Velikiy of Russia's Northern Fleet has completed a missile firing exercise in the Barents Sea, a Navy spokesman said on Wednesday. "The live fire exercise was carried out as part of a tactical drill at a test site in the Barents Sea," Capt. 1st Rank Igor Dygalo said.
He said, in particular, the battle-cruiser had successfully engaged a mock target launched from the missile ship Rassvet.

The cruiser also repulsed a mock air attack with an onboard antiaircraft complex.

Dygalo said Pyotr Velikiy's operations in the Barents Sea were ensured by Northern Fleet warships and support vessels.

 

[Lostfleet]

If we leave the Midway discussion aside for a while... my original point was that a new class of heavily armed cruisers in the Russian Navy would not be useful for patrol purposes or for supporting amphibious operations. It would necessarily represent an offensive tool full of cruise missiles with a significant self defence capability (AAW, ASW).
Now, what missions could such a ship do other than leave territorial waters and try to wreck as much havoc as possible / distract as many enemy (ie USN) forces as possible ?
My comparison was more with WW2 German battleships such as Graf Spee or eventually even the Bismarck itself. When they couldn't go offensive, such as the Bismarck's sistership Tirpitz, they were just practice targets for Allied bombers and not much use for defensive purposes.
Soooo in conclusion, I wouldn't see them as suicidal baits but rather as offensive tools built for a flawed strategy. All the more in today's world where satellites can find you anywhere.

cheers

You shouldnt forget that Allies allocated a lot of equipment to take care of Tirpitz, in a way it was more effective war tool being anchored than being in active service.

So a new Russian Heavy Cruiser might not be a very effective war machine but it will be a good ship to conduct port visits to foreign ports ( bigger the ship, more regular people will be impressed) and during war time it will be a credible threat that the enemy has to allocate forces from the main war effort to deal with it.

 

[Salty Dog]

You shouldnt forget that Allies allocated a lot of equipment to take care of Tirpitz, in a way it was more effective war tool being anchored than being in active service.

So a new Russian Heavy Cruiser might not be a very effective war machine but it will be a good ship to conduct port visits to foreign ports ( bigger the ship, more regular people will be impressed) and during war time it will be a credible threat that the enemy has to allocate forces from the main war effort to deal with it.

So, during the recent "cruise" did the Russian battle group make any port visits? During the Cold War, Soviet Navy port visits were heavily orchestrated and groups of sailors ashore were accompanied by a "party officer" to prevent defection. Should be different now-a-days.

 

[AegisFC]

So, during the recent "cruise" did the Russian battle group make any port visits? During the Cold War, Soviet Navy port visits were heavily orchestrated and groups of sailors ashore were accompanied by a "party officer" to prevent defection. Should be different now-a-days.

No not really. I happened to be in Norfolk when the Admiral Chabanenko was their last year, my brothers ship was the host ship and he was telling me that pretty much only the officers were allowed off the boat and even to take out trash the enlisted needed an escort. Apparently on the last day they were in Norfolk they let some people off unescorted because I seen a few at the mall in down town Norfolk, but I couldn't tell his rank, probably an officer.

 

[Lostfleet]

No not really. I happened to be in Norfolk when the Admiral Chabanenko was their last year, my brothers ship was the host ship and he was telling me that pretty much only the officers were allowed off the boat and even to take out trash the enlisted needed an escort. Apparently on the last day they were in Norfolk they let some people off unescorted because I seen a few at the mall in down town Norfolk, but I couldn't tell his rank, probably an officer.

I guess old habits never die

It must be nice to see a Udaloy Class ship, I never had a chance to be on board any russian surface ship ( have been to a retired Juliett in RI).

Do you guys know if there is a schedule of Russian port visits in the future?

 

[AegisFC]

I guess old habits never die

It must be nice to see a Udaloy Class ship, I never had a chance to be on board any russian surface ship ( have been to a retired Juliett in RI).

Do you guys know if there is a schedule of Russian port visits in the future?

It was very interesting looking, very unlike any European or US built ship I've ever seen.

 

[Salty Dog]

It was very interesting looking, very unlike any European or US built ship I've ever seen.

Quite interesting set of photos of the Russian CG indeed. Thank you. Very busy masts and superstructure with no signs of life outside the skin of the ship. The darker grey helps to hide some of the running rust no doubt. I also noticed all lines are singled vice doubled and no brow to the pier. Perhaps ready to sortie in a hurry?

 

[AegisFC]

Quite interesting set of photos of the Russian CG indeed. Thank you. Very busy masts and superstructure with no signs of life outside the skin of the ship. The darker grey helps to hide some of the running rust no doubt. I also noticed all lines are singled vice doubled and no brow to the pier. Perhaps ready to sortie in a hurry?

They had a brow down but it was short and in those pics I took it is hidden behind that shore power box. The ship was in pretty decent condition exterior wise, not a lot of running rust that I could see, they probably painted it before the exercise. From what I've heard about the living conditions on those ships I'd never want to be on one, for example they don't have the ability to make their own fresh water so they tank up before getting underway and get more when they refuel.

 

[Salty Dog]

They had a brow down but it was short and in those pics I took it is hidden behind that shore power box. The ship was in pretty decent condition exterior wise, not a lot of running rust that I could see, they probably painted it before the exercise. From what I've heard about the living conditions on those ships I'd never want to be on one, for example they don't have the ability to make their own fresh water so they tank up before getting underway and get more when they refuel.

Sorry mate, the Udaloy class are DDG vice CG (my bad). I suppose with all gas turbine propulsion (COGAG), potable/feed water is not a big issue. I suppose the crew is accostomed to sea water showers.

 

[Feanor]

I don't see any statements of intent (never mind actual ships) that indicate a possible replacement for the Kirov class. So this is all just forum chatter. Until the Russian Navy at least claims to be planning something, we're going on not even speculation. We're going on nothing.

 

[carman1877]

The kirov Class Battlecruisser was suppossed to be the best missile ship.

Some compare it to CG Ticonderoga Class, which is better?

Do u think that the Russian's had an idea by making it nuclear powered?

If u got good pics, please share!!



Another thread had this topic but did not answer my question

 

[AegisFC]

The kirov Class Battlecruisser was suppossed to be the best missile ship.

According to whom? Show your source or more evidence rather than a bland and unproven statement.

Some compare it to CG Ticonderoga Class, which is better?

Who are these "some"? The Tico's fill a completely different role, they are much smaller and don't really compare to the Kirov's at all.

Do u think that the Russian's had an idea by making it nuclear powered?

What exactly do you mean? Nuclear powered surface ships are nothing new.

If u got good pics, please share!!

Have you tried the pictures section, or a Google image search?

Another thread had this topic but did not answer my question

Then why didn't you post in in that topic?

 

[tatra]

The kirov Class Battlecruisser was suppossed to be the best missile ship.

Some compare it to CG Ticonderoga Class, which is better?

Do u think that the Russian's had an idea by making it nuclear powered?

If u got good pics, please share!!



Another thread had this topic but did not answer my question

The is no comparison between Kirov class and Ticonderoga class.

The latter is a dedicated 9,600 ton air-defense 'cruiser' version of the 9000 ton Spruance/Kidd classes of destroyers, with anti-shipping, anti-submarine as well as land-attack capabilities.
The former has three times the displacement and a far more significant ship-attack capabilty, good (if inferior by comparison, due to electronics) AAW capability and very basic land attack capability.

Making the cruiser nuclear powered was hardly a new idea, considering US had relied on nuclear power for its carriers as well as for several cruiser classes, that preceeded the conventionally powered Ticonderoga CG (notably CGN-9 Long Beach, CGN-25 Bainbridge, CGN-35 Truxtun, the 2-ship CGN-36 California class, and the 4-ship CGN-38 Virginia class).

Long Beach was the first "all-new" cruiser of the USN designed and constructed after WW2 (all others were completions or conversions of cruisers begun or completed during the war), and the last such ship built on a traditional "cruiser hull" in the US Navy (all subsequent cruisers were built on scaled-up destroyer hulls). She was laid down 2 december 1957 and commission 9 september 1961. The fourth and last ship of the last USN CGN clas (CGN-38) commissioned October 1980. By comparison, the first Kirov was laid down in June of 1973 and commissioned on 30 december 1980.

 

[carman1877]

kirov class

this russian military website said that the kirov is comparable to ticonderoga.

i know that US and USSR have nuclear powered ships but not cruisers only subs or carriers. although a future project will make us cruisers nuclear.

than what can i compare it to??

 

[kato]

The Kirov class can't be compared to anything; the closest it comes to would be an Iowa class battleship, even though those are 50% bigger. In fact, the Iowas were reactivated in the 80s to counter the Kirov, at least sizewise - in any aspect except land-attack and perhaps anti-surface warfare (when loading the ABLs on the Iowa with TASM), the Kirov dwarfs an Iowa obviously.

The Kirov can be compared to a Tico when it comes to air defense, although the inner defense layers of a Kirov are laid out far more redundant.

 

[StevoJH]

this russian military website said that the kirov is comparable to ticonderoga.

i know that US and USSR have nuclear powered ships but not cruisers only subs or carriers. although a future project will make us cruisers nuclear.

than what can i compare it to??

Both countries had nuclear cruisers in the past, though the Kirovs currently owned by russia are the only ones still in service, and they have a mixed powerplant of both conventional and nuclear origin.

The Kirov is not comparable to the ticondaroga, the Kirov is roughly 2.5 the displacement of the Ticondaroga, if you wanted a Russian comparison to the Tico, please use the similar sized Slava class (~10,000t). The Kirov compares to the Tico's the same way that the Alaska's and Courageous class large cruisers compared to normal light and heavy cruisers, there was no comparison.

The Kirvov's carry a total of 428 SAM's without counting the anti-submarine and ASuW missiles, that is 3.5 times the number of VLS tubes carried by the Tico's in total. I did notice interestingly that the hanger deck was reached from the flight deck via a lift, didn't the US try that arrangement and had lots of issues?