Is there any differences between the M249 SAW and the MG4 machine guns?

[F-15 Eagle]

And you know a figure for the number of situations where the MG guys needed to fire full auto for half a minute or so?

Let's stay real. Even in desperate situations most well trained MG gunners are firing bursts. Longer bursts with less time between the bursts but still bursts. And that's going to give them enough problems when it comes to barrel heat and ammunition reserves.

I never said they fire for half a minute or so, 15 round burst though is common.

They can quickly change out the barrels for their M249s and M240s as well as MG3 and MG4 once they over heat in less than 10 seconds.

 

[Marc 1]

I never said they fire for half a minute or so, 15 round burst though is common.

Really? You qualification for saying so? The real world is different from Hollywood. About the only situations I can think of would be during an ambush, or parhaps in a counter ambush drill in close country.

They can quickly change out the barrels for their M249s and M240s as well as MG3 and MG4 once they over heat in less than 10 seconds.

And as there is a limited number of spare barrels carried this will help them how? Once a barrel has heated to the point it needs to be changed, it will take a stack of time to cool off again. This is largely a factor of the weight of the barrel - the heavier the barrel the more rounds it can fire before needing to be changed, but also the longer it will take to cool down again.

F-15, you have a tendancy to argue for the sake of arguing over many points. Waylander has been quite patient explaining that a squad carried automatic weapon is usually fired in short bursts (3 to 4 rounds used to be the Aussie army doctrine) and at a rate that will not burn ammunition and barrels too quickly. There would be few situations during a short contact where a gunner would or should need to change a barrel.

 

[kato]

They can quickly change out the barrels for their M249s and M240s as well as MG3 and MG4 once they over heat in less than 10 seconds.

10? Make that minimum 20 when its hot. And only if you have an assistant gunner. And are already in a position where you can just drop everything and get to it.

There would be few situations during a short contact where a gunner would or should need to change a barrel.

Besides, he'd also need to change the belt at some point - and unless we're talking vehicle with 250-round belt, we're talking about almost as often as the barrel (150 rounds per barrel is the official line for MG3). And with the MG3, the bolt assembly is switched out too on about every second barrel change (every 250-300 rounds).

 

[F-15 Eagle]

F-15, you have a tendancy to argue for the sake of arguing over many points.

I find that hilarious since in 2 threads now thats exactly what you have done, and for the record I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I just don't take lightly to people criticizing for things they have no proof or right to do so.

Oh and its spelled tendency not tendancy.

 

[Bonza]

I find that hilarious since in 2 threads now thats exactly what you have done, and for the record I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I just don't take lightly to people criticizing for things they have no proof or right to do so.

Oh and its spelled tendency not tendancy.

Please don't start calling people out on their spelling and grammar. Your own use of the language leaves a great deal to be desired, so it's the pot calling the kettle black. Don't do it.

As far as being argumentative, if you want to ignore what experienced and knowledgeable posters (and I'm not padding my own ego, I'm referring to Kato, Waylander and Marc here) are saying in favour of your own preconceptions about how machine guns are used then feel free. But don't claim that you're arguing because "you don't take it lightly when people criticise things when they have no right to do so".

Do the posters mentioned above have no right to criticise your views?

 

[Marc 1]

I find that hilarious since in 2 threads now thats exactly what you have done, and for the record I don't argue for the sake of arguing.

Do you really want to revisit the' AK47 vs M16 which sounds louder' thread? GF has had a world of experience in that area, as had many of the posters, and you just blustered past any advice they offered. In this thread you have been told by waylander, a forum member with service experience and also myself (6 years Infantry service, qualified marksman and qualified as a small arms master coach) that effectively we don't know what we are talking about.

I'd suggest in future, you ask a question, look at the answers you have received, evaluate the posters (and you've been here longer than me and should by now have worked out who has knowledge and who is full of BS) and accept their answer graciously. If you are after a clarification of the reply or have evidence that the poster is wrong, then ask another question. Instead you have a habit of slightly modifying your original question or looking for a way to make your inexperienced appraisal of military matters right.

In short, don't do it. It gets annoying.

Oh and its spelled tendency not tendancy.

Thanks for the correction.

Incidentally, post #13 in this thread http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/n...ive-me-currect-size-usn-submarine-fleet-9846/

The word you are looking for is 'seem'. A 'seam' is something miners extract coal from or something you'll find in a pair of trousers.

 

[Waylander]

I never said they fire for half a minute or so, 15 round burst though is common.

They can quickly change out the barrels for their M249s and M240s as well as MG3 and MG4 once they over heat in less than 10 seconds.

It is? Others already replied to that but I want to further emphasize on some points raised by Kato and Marc.

You only carry so many barrels with you and you also carry a pretty limited amount of MG ammo with you when one operates a bit away from vehicles.
So burning through a lot of ammo and needing to change the barrel severely hurst the fighting ability of a squad.
And as Kato said there are alot of situations where you need much longer for a barrel change.
And this critical time may very well be enough for the enemy.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

It is? Others already replied to that but I want to further emphasize on some points raised by Kato and Marc.

You only carry so many barrels with you and you also carry a pretty limited amount of MG ammo with you when one operates a bit away from vehicles.
So burning through a lot of ammo and needing to change the barrel severely hurst the fighting ability of a squad.
And as Kato said there are alot of situations where you need much longer for a barrel change.
And this critical time may very well be enough for the enemy.

I am agreeing with you. But I thought they carry 2-3 spare barrels? But I don't know.

Do you really want to revisit the' AK47 vs M16 which sounds louder' thread? GF has had a world of experience in that area, as had many of the posters, and you just blustered past any advice they offered. In this thread you have been told by waylander, a forum member with service experience and also myself (6 years Infantry service, qualified marksman and qualified as a small arms master coach) that effectively we don't know what we are talking about.

I'd suggest in future, you ask a question, look at the answers you have received, evaluate the posters (and you've been here longer than me and should by now have worked out who has knowledge and who is full of BS) and accept their answer graciously. If you are after a clarification of the reply or have evidence that the poster is wrong, then ask another question. Instead you have a habit of slightly modifying your original question or looking for a way to make your inexperienced appraisal of military matters right.

In short, don't do it. It gets annoying.

Mod Edit. Text deleted. This is your first formal warning. I suggest that you go back and read the rules before proceeeding on. In addtion it would be worth your while going over Marc 1's responses again - he has actually been an operator and has handled the very weapons that you seek information on.

When people actually have operational and capability experience in the weapon systems/ platforms you seek to ask information about, it behooves you to listen. Experience trumps theory and research every time.

You are a valued member of this community, but you have been going off the rails recently. It doesn't suit you. I suggest that you regroup your head a little before continuing on.

 

[Bonza]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The guy was in the infantry for six years and has firsthand experience with the weapons we're discussing.

I couldn't care less if you felt his post compelled you to respond, telling an ex-infantryman he has no idea what he's talking about in a discussion about squad machine guns makes you look like an idiot. It's also the height of disrespect.

So how about you fix your attitude before the moderators get involved.

 

[gary1234scott]

But nobody actually magazine feeds the saw.

i have seen it done and its a good 2nd option

 

[kato]

Personally, i find it interesting that in comparison the old German LMG, the G8, is almost exclusively magazine-fed (albeit with up to 50-round drums), and the belt feed conversion kit - which was procured as well - is never used. Even when the G8 was used as a pintle-mounted vehicle weapon.