Grand Danois
Entertainer
That is also the only situation where large scale ground ops would become relevant IMV.Musashi_kenshin said:
Iran Adds New Fighter Jet To Air Force
- Thread starter Kobus_NL
- Start date
Grand Danois
Entertainer
I don't expect them to be able to block with sunken tankers in Hormuz and they wouldn't try in Suez. Mines would be a serious problem. Would be interesting to see how all those Western AAW frigates/destroyers would do. I think they could handle the ASM's. Survivability of the three old Kilo's would be very, very low. Wonder about those midget subs.aaaditya said:
Neither do I. Point defense would probably be its best chance.aaaditya said:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #44
Azarakhsh vs Sa’eqeh
I found some more info on the issue
Azarakhsh (“Lightning”):
One could say Iran’s fighter projects basically start with the F-5E. Iran achieved the ability to produce F-5Es from scratch after producing F-5E fuselages, avionics, etc. for refurbishment of damaged F-5Es (which delayed Iran considerably). This resulted later into the Simorgh project, which using F-5E parts converted F-5As into F-5F-like dual seat trainers.
Iran took this ability a step further when IACI developed a new F-5E based fighter. It had strengthened and reinforced composite wings (with new heavy duty wing spars) and stronger newly designed hard points. This provided the aircraft with the ability to carry two 1,000kg Sattar-1/2 laser and electro-optical precision guided munitions. This also required placing a television screen in the cockpit, installing new displays, and adding a laser designator. A new multi-purpose Iranian designed, Russian derived radar was also installed on the aircraft (possibly with ground mapping ability). It supposedly incorporates Iranian parts and technology especially from the AN/APQ-120 fire control system of the F-4E. The radar is roughly similar to or slightly more advanced than the Russian Kopyo “Spear” radar. The new radar resulted in the aircraft having a 17cm longer radar dome than a regular F-5E. However, this is unnoticeable to the untrained eye. One more important improvement was made to the fighter. Its twin J-85 turbo-jet engines were uprated with stronger thrust. Thus, the Azarakhsh was born, a single-seat lightweight precision ground attack strike-fighter. This fighter is almost identical to an F-5E although one noticeable difference to an amateur aircraft observer is its camouflage pattern.
Sa’eqeh/ Sa’eqeh-80 (“Lightning”)
The next step in the Iranian fighter evolutionary trail is the Sa’eqeh or Sa’eqeh-80. The “80” which was later dropped stood for the Iranian year of 1380, the year in which the aircraft was planned first to fly. It is important to note that the Sa’eqeh, unlike the Azarakhsh, was developed by MATSA (with design help from SSAFU) not IACI. In a nut shell, the Sa’eqeh could be summarized as a very significant upgrade to the Azarakhsh, an “Azarakhsh-2”, including all the improvements of the Azarakhsh. In fact, this project is possibly also known as Azarakhsh-2 in Iranian official circles. The Iranians simply like new names and most of the time when an aircraft design is modified or upgraded it takes a new name. To understand this one must need only look at Tazarve trainer project, which in its different forms over time, has been called Ra’ad, Dorna, Tondar, and Tazarve. Some names that pop into my head when thinking of the Sa’eqeh are “Super F-5”, “F-5 on steroids”, and “what you get when a F-5E and YF-17 have babies.” (Sorry, just a little Iranian aerospace humor.)
One noticeable difference on the Sa’eqeh is that the single F-5E tail fin of the Azarakhsh was replaced by twin F/A-18 style composite tail fins. It is believed that the Sa’eqeh incorporates a fly by wire system, required due to the aerodynamic unstableness created by the new tail fins. More significantly, it is believed that the J-85 turbojet engines used in the Azarakhsh were replaced with Iranian made afterburning turbofan J-85 engines with substantial technology from the TF-30 engine. These engines have considerably more thrust than their older counterparts.
Source
I found some more info on the issue
Azarakhsh (“Lightning”):
One could say Iran’s fighter projects basically start with the F-5E. Iran achieved the ability to produce F-5Es from scratch after producing F-5E fuselages, avionics, etc. for refurbishment of damaged F-5Es (which delayed Iran considerably). This resulted later into the Simorgh project, which using F-5E parts converted F-5As into F-5F-like dual seat trainers.
Iran took this ability a step further when IACI developed a new F-5E based fighter. It had strengthened and reinforced composite wings (with new heavy duty wing spars) and stronger newly designed hard points. This provided the aircraft with the ability to carry two 1,000kg Sattar-1/2 laser and electro-optical precision guided munitions. This also required placing a television screen in the cockpit, installing new displays, and adding a laser designator. A new multi-purpose Iranian designed, Russian derived radar was also installed on the aircraft (possibly with ground mapping ability). It supposedly incorporates Iranian parts and technology especially from the AN/APQ-120 fire control system of the F-4E. The radar is roughly similar to or slightly more advanced than the Russian Kopyo “Spear” radar. The new radar resulted in the aircraft having a 17cm longer radar dome than a regular F-5E. However, this is unnoticeable to the untrained eye. One more important improvement was made to the fighter. Its twin J-85 turbo-jet engines were uprated with stronger thrust. Thus, the Azarakhsh was born, a single-seat lightweight precision ground attack strike-fighter. This fighter is almost identical to an F-5E although one noticeable difference to an amateur aircraft observer is its camouflage pattern.
Sa’eqeh/ Sa’eqeh-80 (“Lightning”)
The next step in the Iranian fighter evolutionary trail is the Sa’eqeh or Sa’eqeh-80. The “80” which was later dropped stood for the Iranian year of 1380, the year in which the aircraft was planned first to fly. It is important to note that the Sa’eqeh, unlike the Azarakhsh, was developed by MATSA (with design help from SSAFU) not IACI. In a nut shell, the Sa’eqeh could be summarized as a very significant upgrade to the Azarakhsh, an “Azarakhsh-2”, including all the improvements of the Azarakhsh. In fact, this project is possibly also known as Azarakhsh-2 in Iranian official circles. The Iranians simply like new names and most of the time when an aircraft design is modified or upgraded it takes a new name. To understand this one must need only look at Tazarve trainer project, which in its different forms over time, has been called Ra’ad, Dorna, Tondar, and Tazarve. Some names that pop into my head when thinking of the Sa’eqeh are “Super F-5”, “F-5 on steroids”, and “what you get when a F-5E and YF-17 have babies.” (Sorry, just a little Iranian aerospace humor.)
One noticeable difference on the Sa’eqeh is that the single F-5E tail fin of the Azarakhsh was replaced by twin F/A-18 style composite tail fins. It is believed that the Sa’eqeh incorporates a fly by wire system, required due to the aerodynamic unstableness created by the new tail fins. More significantly, it is believed that the J-85 turbojet engines used in the Azarakhsh were replaced with Iranian made afterburning turbofan J-85 engines with substantial technology from the TF-30 engine. These engines have considerably more thrust than their older counterparts.
Source
Last edited:
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Thanks Kobus_NL. 
That really explained a lot. That means the twin tailed aircraft was the Sa’eqeh AKA Azarakhsh-2.
It is not easy figuring out he names of Iranian military projects.
That really explained a lot. That means the twin tailed aircraft was the Sa’eqeh AKA Azarakhsh-2.
It is not easy figuring out he names of Iranian military projects.
To posit an Iranian attack on the Suez canal, you have to provide a satisfactory answer to one of the following questions.aaaditya said:
How would an Iranian submarine get into the Suez canal unnoticed?
How would Iranian combat aircraft carrying anti-ship missiles reach the Suez canal?
How would Iranian missile-armed warships reach the Suez canal?
Before answering, please look at a map, & look up the Iranian ships & planes & the armed forces of the countries they'd have to overfly or sail past.
I think you got me wrong. I'm not pro-war or eager to see some bombs being droped. It's just that the way things look now, sooner or later the US will lose is patience and take millitary action against Iran (hopefully, this time with the UN Security Council's approvalmerocaine said:
). I doubt diplomacy will solve the problem. Especially when Iran defies the IAEA. And personally I'm sick of the UN and the IAEA being treated in this way (by any nation) and Iran has almost taken this too far. I do not wish war, and war is something that neither the US or Iran need, but I don't really see an alternative solution at this moment. I hope I was somewhat more tempered and that I made myself clear this time.Heh, didn't noticed this 'til swerve pointed it out. I must have jumped over the Suez canal part. I don't see how can this be a confusion, as there is no canal in that region that Iran could block in order to cause some problems, so... what's the deal with the Suez, 1.600 km from Iran, in Egypt?!aaaditya said:
Yeah, that seems to be quite fashionable these days. And here I go again remembering the load of crap about 9/11 related conspiracies, even on this day...icelord said:
Hmm, i think merocaine was talking bout another form of Arse pounding...lol:lol3Burner said:I think you got me wrong. I'm not pro-war or eager to see some bombs being droped. It's just that the way things look now, sooner or later the US will lose is patience and take millitary action against Iran (hopefully, this time with the UN Security Council's approval
Funny thing that, u know, suez being part of another nation, it still brings us back to what Iran could do to p*ss off the world, most likely, blow up oil related things.
Hmm, mines, i'm guessing that theirs still a ton of them lying round from Iraq/Iran party, and being old would just make them more unstable, the Kilos would be wiped out before they even knew they were in the water, but does Iran have other subs we don't know about? A sub is easier to hide from Satillites then a ship, and if i went through Russian records of every sub made,and where it is now, i'd be confused as i can't read russian, but you get what i'm getting at.
Wow, the tail is like an F/A 18 fin, the similarities between these two are just amazing.
Submarine exports are very big to hide, & there are US & other ships & planes all along the Iranian coast. No secret subs, I'm sure - except, perhaps, possibly, mini-subs such as those Yugoslavia used to make. But the Persian Gulf is quite sub-unfriendly. Shallow, very clear water.icelord said:Hmm, mines, i'm guessing that theirs still a ton of them lying round from Iraq/Iran party, and being old would just make them more unstable, the Kilos would be wiped out before they even knew they were in the water, but does Iran have other subs we don't know about? A sub is easier to hide from Satillites then a ship, and if i went through Russian records of every sub made,and where it is now, i'd be confused as i can't read russian, but you get what i'm getting at.
Mines - not much more than a nuisance when Iraq used them in the 1980s. Iran has a longer coastline, so more scope for minelayers to sneak out, but it would also be facing far more numerous & better equipped opponents at sea & in the air.
Of course, the only reason for Iran to take action against oil passing through the straits of Hormuz would be as a reaction to an existential threat, since they'd be cutting off their own source of income.
Thats the crux of it, It would be the last thing they would try. There are to many other ways of hurting the americans in the area.
Back to the Plane, if it is fast, has long range AAM's and a decent radar, it will be a fine point defence fighter. It would have one main mission anyway, none of that swing role stuff whatever they say.
Now if they can produce it in large numbers it could actully cause problems when the Americans decide to take out the Iranian nuclear programme.
Oh, I got it now.:lol3merocaine said:
Well, even if it's a fine air defence fighter, how many can they really produce in a short time span? And if the US will go for a military solution in a year or so, then I'm sure we'll see the Raptor flying over Iran. I strongly doubt a modified and upgraded F-5 will pose a real threat to the Raptor.