It seems the $10 billion covers everything mentioned in the article, which is mostly energy related. No idea how much of it is the pods.
Indonesian Aero News
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #802
No, the USD 10 bio is the wholle projects, that being signed. I believe big chunck of it related to Energy based projects. Unconfirmed sources indicated that the Sniper ATP deal only covering 1-2 dozen system. I tend to believe maximum a dozen is more likely. But just tonnyc says no confirmation yet on how much the deal for sniper ATP really is....and how many systems involved.
That's great news. We could all look forward to reading about how the Air Force proceeded with the purchase of the actual PGMs for these Sniper pods .... 10 years from now. Just being sarcastic .....
, sorry can't help it. I am hoping that the PGM purchase will follow soon, and live fire exercise will commence right after. It's about time the air force join the 21st century. I know there are Kh-31, Kh-29 and R77 in the inventory, but I don't believe they have exercised this capability.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Youre not the only one who is pessimistic here....That's great news. We could all look forward to reading about how the Air Force proceeded with the purchase of the actual PGMs for these Sniper pods .... 10 years from now. Just being sarcastic .....
I am hoping that the PGM purchase will follow soon, and live fire exercise will commence right after. It's about time the air force join the 21st century. I know there are Kh-31, Kh-29 and R77 in the inventory, but I don't believe they have exercised this capability.
Maybe from the $10.000.000.000 in trade and investment agreements, only a couple of millions are covering the acquisition of some AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods. But even if two of four from our F-16s are equipped with the Sniper ATP, without PGMs and medium/long-range air-to-air missiles, these F-16s will be not much better than our old F-5E/Fs...
Until now our F-16s are only armed with AIM-9P-4s and fuel tanks...
Now something else, our smartest defence minister ever again in action:
https://jakartagreater.com/komisi-i...bo-sekali-pun-mengakui-kehebatan-prajurit-ri/
According to one of our parlement members: “Sebab, dunia mengakui kehebatan prajurit-prajurit RI yang sulit ditandingi, bahkan oleh Rambo (jagoan dalam film Amerika) sekali pun,”.
Translated to English that means "Even a fictive film character recognize the greatness of our soldiers!"
.....oh i love politicians, they are so funny!
Indonesia has ordered AMRAAM, AIM-9X and AGM-65 Maverick missiles in the relatively recent past, I seem to recall...Youre not the only one who is pessimistic here....
Maybe from the $10.000.000.000 in trade and investment agreements, only a couple of millions are covering the acquisition of some AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods. But even if two of four from our F-16s are equipped with the Sniper ATP, without PGMs and medium/long-range air-to-air missiles, these F-16s will be not much better than our old F-5E/Fs...
Until now our F-16s are only armed with AIM-9P-4s and fuel tanks...
Now something else, our smartest defence minister ever again in action:
https://jakartagreater.com/komisi-i...bo-sekali-pun-mengakui-kehebatan-prajurit-ri/
According to one of our parlement members: “Sebab, dunia mengakui kehebatan prajurit-prajurit RI yang sulit ditandingi, bahkan oleh Rambo (jagoan dalam film Amerika) sekali pun,”.
Translated to English that means "Even a fictive film character recognize the greatness of our soldiers!"
.....oh i love politicians, they are so funny!
AIM-120C7
Indonesia - AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
AIM-9X Block 2
Indonesia – AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Missiles | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Maverick
Indonesia – AGM-65K2 MAVERICK Missiles | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing ADMk2!
Hopefully this Foreign Military Sales orders will become reality, because: "This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded."
Lets wait for the first photos on internet from F-16s carrying these high-tech toys...
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #807
Got it from local forum. Artist impression of F-16V on TNI-AU livery. Again showing that Lock-Mart still fighting Sukhoi-Rosoboron on getting TNI-AU F-5E/F replacement contract.
Well honestly this F-5 replacement already dragging down too long..when the F-5 that being replaced now already inactive condition, even one of them already in AF museum.
Well honestly this F-5 replacement already dragging down too long..when the F-5 that being replaced now already inactive condition, even one of them already in AF museum.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Are all of them already grounded?
If our government cant choose between Su-35, EF2000 and F-16V, than they should choose TA-50 as a cheaper temporary solution...
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #809
Yes, frm the AF anouncement in Media, they already put all F-5 in inactive operation. Frm what I gather, the AF simply won't support F-5 operation anymore since to do that they need further investment on logistics and upgrade. Something that they will rather used the budget on procurement and support of F-5 replacement.
There are talk frm AF sources in media and forum that FA 50 is what they preceived as potential replacement for Hawk 200. F-5 replacement is for Fighthers that meet Gen 4 ++ catagory.
They already got approval frm Parliament for close to USD 1.2 bio for F-5 replacement. At the same time AF says in media they are not at final decision yet on F-5 replacement thus Su-35 or F-16V or Eurofighter still are under considerations.
In other word they still talking on best possible deal frm all the suppliers.
There are talk frm AF sources in media and forum that FA 50 is what they preceived as potential replacement for Hawk 200. F-5 replacement is for Fighthers that meet Gen 4 ++ catagory.
They already got approval frm Parliament for close to USD 1.2 bio for F-5 replacement. At the same time AF says in media they are not at final decision yet on F-5 replacement thus Su-35 or F-16V or Eurofighter still are under considerations.
In other word they still talking on best possible deal frm all the suppliers.
Is the Indonesian requirement for fighters or overall capability? Would that $1.2b be best spent on a number dozen or so fighters, or improving the capability of the fighters you already have and arming and equipping them properly?Yes, frm the AF anouncement in Media, they already put all F-5 in inactive operation. Frm what I gather, the AF simply won't support F-5 operation anymore since to do that they need further investment on logistics and upgrade. Something that they will rather used the budget on procurement and support of F-5 replacement.
There are talk frm AF sources in media and forum that FA 50 is what they preceived as potential replacement for Hawk 200. F-5 replacement is for Fighthers that meet Gen 4 ++ catagory.
They already got approval frm Parliament for close to USD 1.2 bio for F-5 replacement. At the same time AF says in media they are not at final decision yet on F-5 replacement thus Su-35 or F-16V or Eurofighter still are under considerations.
In other word they still talking on best possible deal frm all the suppliers.
For instance, you could probably upgrade your existing F-16's to an F-16V standard and equip them with a strong inventory of precision guided weapons, air to air missiles and/or do the same for your SU-27/30 fleet for that amount?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #811
Frm what I gather, that budget is for procurement of F-5 replacement. They (Mindef and AF) already know that the amount of Aircraft they can get is only around 8-12 (depends on aircraft and the deal). Whether this is for 1st batch or not is not clear.
Indonesian Defence procurement so far as I know differentiate budget for platform, maintanance, upgrade and armaments. Thus as you can see before it's not uncommon for Indonesian Armed Forces bought Platform and armaments on seperate deals. This caused mostly budget must set seperately.
Like for that 24 ex USAF F-16 C/D..the budget for acquiaring them is set as upgrade budget since the platform it self got it free from US. Recent example is on Sniper ATP..actually the US DSCA already include Sniper as part of F-16 C/D deal, including AIM 9x, AIM 120, and Maverics..but implementation done seperately since budgets is set seperately. Thus each of them will required seperate contracts.
Is not the most ideal way to prepared budgets, but that's how the Parliement and administrations work in Indonesia.
Add:
Frm what I heard frm unofficial sources in Ministry of Finance..Mindef already asked budget to upgrade 10 existing F-16A/B Blk 15 OCU to the same standard of that 24 ex USAF C/D Blk 25 that upgraded to Blk 52 avionics/electronics standard.
They aimed to get 2 sq of blk 52 standard F-16 (called F-16 52ID)..thus they do have plan to keep maintain and upgrade the F-16 untill beyod 2025. The Flankers also going to be upgraded..so far 4 already in Belarus for Upgrade.
Frm media, seems the AF are not planning to upgrade Hawk 200 more than present conditions. Only bought neccesary parts to make them operational for additional few years before they can replace it. The AF talk in media that potential FA-50 as Hawk replacement. While the existing LIFT T-50 will be upgraded to TA-50 standard to give them secondary attack role frm their primary role as LIFT.
The Lock-Mart seems offering newly build F-16V in competition with Rosoboron Su-35 as F-5 replacement.
Anyway got this picture frm last year exercise in Natuna. Seems by the arsenal wise, the Flankers is the most complete one in Indonesian AF inventory. At least frm the picture it's already equiped with R-27. Thus if the AIM-120 come the AF will have 2 seperate BVR for Flankers and Vipers.
Wondering though if they can make Flankers fires AIM-120 and the Vipers fires R-27. Not likely since don't think they can able to get the code to open US or Russian system, unless they can crack it.
Seems the picture also shown R-77 (between R-27 and R-73)..but I'm not quite sure on that.
Indonesian Defence procurement so far as I know differentiate budget for platform, maintanance, upgrade and armaments. Thus as you can see before it's not uncommon for Indonesian Armed Forces bought Platform and armaments on seperate deals. This caused mostly budget must set seperately.
Like for that 24 ex USAF F-16 C/D..the budget for acquiaring them is set as upgrade budget since the platform it self got it free from US. Recent example is on Sniper ATP..actually the US DSCA already include Sniper as part of F-16 C/D deal, including AIM 9x, AIM 120, and Maverics..but implementation done seperately since budgets is set seperately. Thus each of them will required seperate contracts.
Is not the most ideal way to prepared budgets, but that's how the Parliement and administrations work in Indonesia.
Add:
Frm what I heard frm unofficial sources in Ministry of Finance..Mindef already asked budget to upgrade 10 existing F-16A/B Blk 15 OCU to the same standard of that 24 ex USAF C/D Blk 25 that upgraded to Blk 52 avionics/electronics standard.
They aimed to get 2 sq of blk 52 standard F-16 (called F-16 52ID)..thus they do have plan to keep maintain and upgrade the F-16 untill beyod 2025. The Flankers also going to be upgraded..so far 4 already in Belarus for Upgrade.
Frm media, seems the AF are not planning to upgrade Hawk 200 more than present conditions. Only bought neccesary parts to make them operational for additional few years before they can replace it. The AF talk in media that potential FA-50 as Hawk replacement. While the existing LIFT T-50 will be upgraded to TA-50 standard to give them secondary attack role frm their primary role as LIFT.
The Lock-Mart seems offering newly build F-16V in competition with Rosoboron Su-35 as F-5 replacement.
Anyway got this picture frm last year exercise in Natuna. Seems by the arsenal wise, the Flankers is the most complete one in Indonesian AF inventory. At least frm the picture it's already equiped with R-27. Thus if the AIM-120 come the AF will have 2 seperate BVR for Flankers and Vipers.
Wondering though if they can make Flankers fires AIM-120 and the Vipers fires R-27. Not likely since don't think they can able to get the code to open US or Russian system, unless they can crack it.
Seems the picture also shown R-77 (between R-27 and R-73)..but I'm not quite sure on that.
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If they do that, they will be in breach of ITARS Regulations imposed by the State Department and you can say goodbye to any further US support for the platforms Indonesia has already acquired and goodby to any chance of further US equipment acquisitions until the issue is resolved...
I think the diverse acquisition sources is fair enough from a geo-political viewpoint and enough of a complex challenge to maintain and operate without trying to mix and match between the two...
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #813
Thanks..I suspect there's agreement frm Supplier (especially US) that prohibitted their system to be tampered with. Just forgot what.
I don't know if Russian has that kind of prohibition for their system.
Curious, if you developed your own system and make it compatible for both US and Russian missiles, is it going to breach ITARS ?
Why I asked this, since some supplier like Saab frm what i gather is offering services to some countries that want to build their own system. If not mistaken Israel Rafael also offered that..
Say in ROK-Indonesia Project of KFX/IFX..they build their own system with help frm non us suplier like Saab, Rafael, or Sagem and made it compatible with US missiles (caused it's the missiles that are more available)..then also make it open to be compatible with 'say' Russian missiles ( which also much available in market)..make it an open system..
Will it create problem under ITARS ? Will US then prohibited selling missiles to the project caused it's using US missiles on non US system (thus not under their controlled regime)..?
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Well, the IRIS-T can be used on all aircrafts which operates the AIM-9.
And about the photo you've posted, from left to right: Kh-31, Kh-29, R-27, R-77, R-73 and a rocketpod for S-8. Thanks for sharing btw...
And about the photo you've posted, from left to right: Kh-31, Kh-29, R-27, R-77, R-73 and a rocketpod for S-8. Thanks for sharing btw...
Such things can be negotiated, Australia put the English ASRAAM missile onto our Hornets and Israeli Elta jamming pods, so non-US systems 'can' be integrated, but they obviously have to be cleared for installation on US platforms.
It would depend greatly on the negotiated end-user certificates and what is allowed under the various agreements.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #817
Indonesian Army Apache
Apache Puspenerbad Jalani Uji Terbang - Majalah Angkasa Online
Frm Angkasa magazine online site. Indonesian Army AH-64E (Angkasa seems mistaken call it AH-64D)..conduct flight trial in Boeing facility. Report says that 3 will be delivered this year, and the rest 5 will be delivered next year. Media talk also on option for another 8 AH-64 to make it full sq, but that's unconfirmed.
Frm what I gather, Army Aviation (Penerbad in Indonesian), will operated those AH-64 in a hybrid squadron with MI-35.
Apache Puspenerbad Jalani Uji Terbang - Majalah Angkasa Online
Frm Angkasa magazine online site. Indonesian Army AH-64E (Angkasa seems mistaken call it AH-64D)..conduct flight trial in Boeing facility. Report says that 3 will be delivered this year, and the rest 5 will be delivered next year. Media talk also on option for another 8 AH-64 to make it full sq, but that's unconfirmed.
Frm what I gather, Army Aviation (Penerbad in Indonesian), will operated those AH-64 in a hybrid squadron with MI-35.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
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- #818
Further development on Indonesian AF Su-35 procurement saga.
Indonesia considers bartering rubber for Su-35 fighters | Jane's 360
This's already happen couple days ago, but I only posted today since this is the first english article on the matter that I found. The move for geeting USD 600 mio rubber deal with Russia, is part of regulation in Indonesian defense procurement which basically says that any defence procurement has to gain some portion of the deal in Tech Transfer, or Local Industry participation. However if this can't be concluded, then trade barter can be consider.
Seems the 2nd option is being considered, as frm I heard Russian did not want to give local Industry participation considering Indonesia only buy 8 SU-35. The deal reported USD 1.14 Bio for 8 Su-35, but if the report correct, also included supply parts, training, and Armament.
TNI-AU indicated that the procurement eventually for 16 plane, indicating another deal batch is possible.
Indonesia considers bartering rubber for Su-35 fighters | Jane's 360
This's already happen couple days ago, but I only posted today since this is the first english article on the matter that I found. The move for geeting USD 600 mio rubber deal with Russia, is part of regulation in Indonesian defense procurement which basically says that any defence procurement has to gain some portion of the deal in Tech Transfer, or Local Industry participation. However if this can't be concluded, then trade barter can be consider.
Seems the 2nd option is being considered, as frm I heard Russian did not want to give local Industry participation considering Indonesia only buy 8 SU-35. The deal reported USD 1.14 Bio for 8 Su-35, but if the report correct, also included supply parts, training, and Armament.
TNI-AU indicated that the procurement eventually for 16 plane, indicating another deal batch is possible.
Considering that last year Russia claims to want to barter for 80 thousand tonnes of rubber with Thailand and then nothing was ever heard of it again, I am skeptical that Russia is serious about the barter.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Besides that, rubber worth of $600.000.000, thats a lot.... I dont think the Russians need so much rubber
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