How to stop the somalian pirate threat.

[GI-Gizmo]

A sad a hopeless problem . . . Somalia & the pirate problem

The only real way to put an end to the pirate problem is to land troops ashore to clear the pirate gangs and hold the captured ground. The problem is no nation wants to get their feet stuck in the problematic tarpit of Somalia.
It would take a few thousands troops to patrol, aid the local populous and deny the pirates a base to launch from. Special forces detachments would also be needed to target the pirate gangs and kill or capture the leadership.
Naval quick reaction forces would need to be on alert to intercept and destroy any pirates who did get out to sea. The mission could go on for years and quickly escalate into a more complex situation depending on what happened once troops were on the ground.
The only real way to end the piracy threat coming out of Somalia is to help the nation [even though it is not a single nation, more like a bunch of statelets and clan and gang controlled areas with Islamic radicalism thrown in]. Somalia is in a deep pile of shit, no nation or group wants to lend a hand to help pull it out. It is seen as being hopeless and pointless. The current US strategy is to arm the TNG [Transitional National Government] so that it can fight Al-Shabaab [the Islamic radicals] so that the Gov't can eventually focus some decisive attention to the pirate problem.

 

[The Swordman]

A future for Somalia

It's a matter of fact that Somalia is a failed state. The question is: who wants to put it back on track? UN mission in the '90 was a mess, same for the US sponsored intervention (remember Black Hawk down?); locals are oppressed by ghost government, warlords and so called Islamic courts, no surprise that there is a massive emigration form the area.
Who wants to pay the bill for such an action?
We're talking about a 10 years or more intervention, with plenty of troops and tech to be deployed.

 

[Duffy]

GI-Gizmo
I do agree the only long term solution is a stabilized governed state. That sounds feasible on the suffice. First, Somalia has a population of 9.5 million people so a couple thousand troops would be more like 20/25,000 at the onset then 10,000 for at least five year at best. Now if you want to try in stamp out Al-Shabaab you will have to close the borders of Ethiopia and Kenya another 60,000 + troops,Second,the infrastructure is for the most part nonexistent.So after you have control.Then rebuilding just the basics will take probably four to five years and say $2 billion at best. That does not include investments on industry so the country can become self sufficient.
who's the lucky one that gets to do this? The US is out for a few reason.First and probably the most important is our relation ships with our Arab allies. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have put allot of stain on our friend do to the fact that there populations are starting see America as anti Muslim.The second is this is the United Nations baby. and has been since the early 1990s. The USN along with several others will work in the waters off the coast witch it is doing for the UN but would do any way simply because of obligation to NATO.
In 2005 the shipping company's filed a formal complaint with the International Maritime Organization witch is a UN agency , The World Food Program has shown concern witch is a branch of the United Nations. So the ball is in there hands.(I personally have no faith in the UN they cant accomplish any more than the red cross. Just my opinion)
The big question is what country would take on that responsibility when the pirate can be stopped from off shore.It will take a little time and cost some money but nothing in the magnitude of putting men on the ground.Plus in Jan,2009 Sheikh Hussein was elected president who then appointed Omar Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke as prime minister these two together represents the best chance of Somalia in the past twenty years .So I don't see anything but some coast guard duties for the navy's and see what happens on shore. I believe the new president just received some thing like $230 million to help.
Check out the link below there is some interesting reading.
Piracy in Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PS Its nice to see another non liberal here in Mass.

 

[GI-Gizmo]

NatGeo Sept. 09 Issue: Somalia Feature...

The September issue of National Geographic has a great 30 page feature
on the failed state of Somalia. It focuses on the seperatist Somaliland in the
North which is thriving and stable compared to Somalia. The article is well written by two journalists who recap their recent visit to the area. They showcase the everyday life of normal people who are suffering horribly because of their surroundings, the history of Somalia going back to colonial times, through the period of dictatorship, into the civil war and famine of recent times and into the present day. It is the NatGeo issue, September 2009, with the picture of Manhatten and the title 'Before New York' on the cover, on the bottom left it says 'Somalia: The Number One Failed Nation'.
I bought the issue yesterday to bring to the beach with me to read and it was so interesting that I ended up reading it again today. I highly recommend that anybody with any interest in the subject buys the issue.

 

[Duffy]

The September issue of National Geographic has a great 30 page feature
on the failed state of Somalia. It focuses on the seperatist Somaliland in the
North which is thriving and stable compared to Somalia. The article is well written by two journalists who recap their recent visit to the area. They showcase the everyday life of normal people who are suffering horribly because of their surroundings, the history of Somalia going back to colonial times, through the period of dictatorship, into the civil war and famine of recent times and into the present day. It is the NatGeo issue, September 2009, with the picture of Manhatten and the title 'Before New York' on the cover, on the bottom left it says 'Somalia: The Number One Failed Nation'.
I bought the issue yesterday to bring to the beach with me to read and it was so interesting that I ended up reading it again today. I highly recommend that anybody with any interest in the subject buys the issue.

Thanks Gi-Gizmo sounds like an interesting read. There are few country's that have witnessed the blood shed that Somalia especially for that long.

 

[stoker]

Somalian peace keepers

It's a matter of fact that Somalia is a failed state. The question is: who wants to put it back on track? UN mission in the '90 was a mess, same for the US sponsored intervention (remember Black Hawk down?); locals are oppressed by ghost government, warlords and so called Islamic courts, no surprise that there is a massive emigration form the area.
Who wants to pay the bill for such an action?
We're talking about a 10 years or more intervention, with plenty of troops and tech to be deployed.

A UN sponsored intervention force would be the only politically acceptable way for any peace keeping force to be inserted in to Somalia.

The best way to select a peace keeping force that would be acceptable to Somalian citizens would be to form this "Army/Police Force' would be to select this Force only from the young Somalia men (and women) who are part of the massive emigration that has fled from Somalia to the West.

I am trying to select my words very careful here because of the peceived perception of racism could very easily be thrown at this idea.

Its is NOT my intention to be seen as being racist in only selecting Somalian refugees as the only possible source of an Intervention Para-military Force under UN command and control, because the fractured state of the tribal/clan groups that make up what we call Somalia have no cohesion as a national group at all, and they all basically hate and distrust ALL outsiders.

This distrust and hatred of the West was most apparent in our last attempt of an intervention.

Fellow native born Somalians under UN control working alongside what passes as the Somalian government, to eliminate the insurgents that are bent on destroying the present Goverment any forcing their fundamentalist religous dictatorship on all Somalian citizen, would be the only way for Somalians to accept and trust as a peace keeping Forces that are genuinely there to safeguard and protect fellow Somalians.

Somalia at the moment is a terrible mess that is not going to go away, either we do something drastic to halt this carnage, or we wash our hands of the whole mess and let the carnage to carry on and gradually destroy the whole fabric of what passes as the Somalian population.

Waba

 

[Duffy]

It is hard posting on a world wide forum with out offending some one.Perception vary greatly. Sound like a good idea but a few problems come to mind. How many of the refugees do you think would be willing to go back and kill fellow Somalis.Thats a lot to ask of any one. This hole mess is more about power than race or religion, Both do play a small roll. For there to be a central governing body all tribal/clans will have to give up a considerable amount of power. I don't see that without blood shed
If any one plans on putting any type of forces on the ground it will have to be a swift and aggressive. action. The United Nations is simply not capable of this type of action. I do agree that training refugees for the longer term police action makes sense. But some one has to take control first. Who is the question?
To much is read into the "fundamentalist and insurgent" part of this. Look at any county in turmoil and you will find religious fanatics of all flavors. The new President was the Commander and Chief of the parent group (ICU) that most of the existing spawn from. The word insurgent is perceived as foreign militants fighting for religion agent a government . (An insurgent is anyone rising in opposition to lawful authority). Something that happens daily in all country's.But it paints a grim picture in the media.
Time will tell if the new government can get a handle on whats happing. The UN will not, and can not, do anything but sit around and talk about what to do.The only county willing to go in is Ethiopia, and thats the last country Somalia wants involved.
I think at this stage the only thing we can do is sit back and "wash or hands of the hole mess". If the government thats in place cant at least stabilize the state there will be few options left. None are good for Somalia as a state.


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