F-35 Multirole Joint Strike Fighter

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Bonza

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I wonder what CUDA would do to APAs favourite sim that has F-35s being swept from the sky by hordes of SU-XXX after running out of missiles. I suppose they will just re run it or extrapolate the original results with three times as many flankers and an assumed 80% failure rate of the CUDA due to its small warhead and lack of a proximity fuse.
Got it in one. The lengths they'll go to to discredit an aircraft that really has nothing to do with them are both baffling and sad. I wouldn't be surprised if they write CUDA off as some sub-par PR exercise to artificially inflate the internal payload of the F-35 to make it more palatable to all those air forces who've had the wool pulled over their eyes.

Idiotic dinosaurs.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
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Verified Defense Pro
I wonder what CUDA would do to APAs favourite sim that has F-35s being swept from the sky by hordes of SU-XXX after running out of missiles. I suppose they will just re run it or extrapolate the original results with three times as many flankers and an assumed 80% failure rate of the CUDA due to its small warhead and lack of a proximity fuse.
Make up figures showing it has a Pk rate of 0.00005 and give any Russian missile a Pk rate of 2.00 + as they always do...

Thereby showing no matter what L-M tries, they simply can't win...
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Make up figures showing it has a Pk rate of 0.00005 and give any Russian missile a Pk rate of 2.00 + as they always do...

Thereby showing no matter what L-M tries, they simply can't win...
The upside of fantastically pessimistic simulations and commentary is when real wars actually happen you get a 1991 or 2003 result where the other side may as well have not turned up, so great is the disparity in capability.
 

King Wally

Active Member
I wonder what CUDA would do to APAs favourite sim that has F-35s being swept from the sky by hordes of SU-XXX after running out of missiles. I suppose they will just re run it or extrapolate the original results with three times as many flankers and an assumed 80% failure rate of the CUDA due to its small warhead and lack of a proximity fuse.
There is only one way you will shut some people up and sadly it will be when F-35s litterally go head to head against modern Su's/Migs. Going to happen some time in the next 15 years probably. Be it a Syria / Iran / North Korea etc. I know who I will have my money on.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
There is only one way you will shut some people up and sadly it will be when F-35s litterally go head to head against modern Su's/Migs. Going to happen some time in the next 15 years probably. Be it a Syria / Iran / North Korea etc. I know who I will have my money on.
Even some more information coming out of future Red Flags etc would be helpful in silencing some of the idiots out there. After all, it's not as though the F-22 has had to fire a shot in wartime - all there has been is pilot testimonials as to how damn difficult it is to fight the thing during training exercises.

Personally I don't believe the balloon is going to go up with any of those nations (maybe, maybe Syria, depending on how the Russians feel about it), but if it did I'd expect the vast majority of their air forces to be destroyed on the ground, along with their support systems and infrastructure. Which of course would validate APA's claims that the F-35 is only useful for air-to-ground, ha ha ha...
 

the road runner

Active Member
I recall an article by Abe ,that stated 48 JSF could surge up to 4 missions per day ,that would be 240 missions in a day.The norm being 2 missions a day for JSF.That has to be a winning figure in any Air Power Australia debate IMHO.

Just Google for the PDF

More Super Hornets for Australia? - Asia Pacific Defence Reporter

Good article Abe (On the Super Hornet and "The battle for Air Dominance")
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Quite true, some forces can now be delaminated to a degree before a shot is even fired...
yep, it's all about the multiple D's. DSTO's punchline seems to have caught on as I now see US publications referring to them

delaminate, deceive, disrupt, deter, destroy
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Even some more information coming out of future Red Flags etc would be helpful in silencing some of the idiots out there.
you'll never educate those twits - no matter what the reality is. there's enough data already to show that its a gamechanger

red flag, blue flag, various Cobra NN's and recent Talisman Sabers all show that warfighting has changed in that space

The best advice I was ever given was to ignore them and let them dribble in their own porridge. There are times where I feel compelled to kick them into the 21st century, but it would be a waste of effort.

Let them bask in their own magnificence, they'll still be sprouting the same stuff as they get wheeled off to the nursing home....
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
you'll never educate those twits - no matter what the reality is. there's enough data already to show that its a gamechanger

red flag, blue flag, various Cobra NN's and recent Talisman Sabers all show that warfighting has changed in that space

The best advice I was ever given was to ignore them and let them dribble in their own porridge. There are times where I feel compelled to kick them into the 21st century, but it would be a waste of effort.

Let them bask in their own magnificence, they'll still be sprouting the same stuff as they get wheeled off to the nursing home....
Well I imagine they and most of their supporters are the type who religiously follow (and believe) the rants of Bolt, Jones etc. with a smattering of the loony left who use pseudo logic supported by cherry picked pseudo facts to knock any system selected for the ADF. The political rusted ons who knock anything that happens when their mob are in opposition and justify everything no matter how stupid if their mob does it. Last but not least we have the fan boys
 

colay

New Member
I wonder what CUDA would do to APAs favourite sim that has F-35s being swept from the sky by hordes of SU-XXX after running out of missiles. I suppose they will just re run it or extrapolate the original results with three times as many flankers and an assumed 80% failure rate of the CUDA due to its small warhead and lack of a proximity fuse.
Not APA but belonging to the same tribe. It seems CUDA has blindsided them and they can't come up with any coherent response.
Eric Palmer blog: Blue-sky market
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Not APA but belonging to the same tribe. It seems CUDA has blindsided them and they can't come up with any coherent response.
Eric Palmer blog: Blue-sky market
I think I may have inflicted, hopefully, temporary brain damage on myself reading that crap.

Correct me if I am wrong but is the general gist something along the line of;
the F-35 isn't good enough to replace the current generation of aircraft, therefore we need to buy more previous generation aircraft, that offer little if any improvement over the current generation, to replace the current generation aircraft that need to be replaced because they are not good enough​

There is actually a precedent in the US, its called the M-4 Carbine. A once innovative system is updated and kept in production past its use by date. A capable replacement is developed, trialled and pretty much ready for service but then cancelled because it doesn't offer enough improvement to justify replacing the current inventory, the M-4 is then reordered to replace worn out M-16s and M-4s, offering no improvement at all.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
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Not APA but belonging to the same tribe. It seems CUDA has blindsided them and they can't come up with any coherent response.
Eric Palmer blog: Blue-sky market
Not APA, but just as crazy in their own fashion. Their spelling and grammar is a bit worse, they're less well informed, but they share the same irrelevant opinions.

I'm kind of looking forward to the day when Eric realises he's been "had" but not by L-M or any of his current targets.

I suspect he'll exit immediately from all discussions on defence matters...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Verified Defense Pro
I'm kind of looking forward to the day when Eric realises he's been "had" but not by L-M or any of his current targets.

I suspect he'll exit immediately from all discussions on defence matters...
There's a side of me that wishes that just "once" could we drag those muppets into a proper briefing so that they could actually see once and for all the capability that RAAF/USAF/RAF and all the other participating countries and services get motivated over.

but, I always forget that bloggers are smarter and better informed than force planners and actual air force engineers....etc...

/sarcasm off
 
Even some more information coming out of future Red Flags etc would be helpful in silencing some of the idiots out there. After all, it's not as though the F-22 has had to fire a shot in wartime - all there has been is pilot testimonials as to how damn difficult it is to fight the thing during training exercises.

Personally I don't believe the balloon is going to go up with any of those nations (maybe, maybe Syria, depending on how the Russians feel about it), but if it did I'd expect the vast majority of their air forces to be destroyed on the ground, along with their support systems and infrastructure. Which of course would validate APA's claims that the F-35 is only useful for air-to-ground, ha ha ha...
Well theres little doubt about the F-22s capabilities by those who operate her and the USAF philosophy is to train like you fight, it is supposedly difficult for them to find someone willing to take on the Raptor, so I am especially excited about the possibility of the F-35s going to Nellis, 12 to the 422nd T & E squadron, and 24 to the Fighter Weapons School. Hopefully this latest grounding will be a short lived situation, I heard through the grapevine, that there is to be a preliminary report Wednesday and I hope that is true, as the initial four Lightening IIs were to be flown there before the end of the month, so that tactics can be tested and flown in order to begin to develop some operational guidelines. I am especially excited to see how she stacks up with the F-22, but the four gens will possibly be even more interesting, I'm willing to go out on a limb here and predict the F-35s will be as nearly overwhelming as the F-22 was when it achieved IOC.
I do hope that those critics of the F-22, who are in fact proponents of the F-35, will see in these initial forays with the F-35 that a fifth gen is indeed a different animal, and these growing pains are part of the pathway to fifth gen capability, I hate to say it but the F-35 is going to have to earn her stripes just as the F-22 did, and this fifth gen biz is indeed rocket science. Folks expecting success to be plopped in their lap by this little bird, need to realize that these capabilities are not only costly, but require a lot of hard work to integrate into a combat system. As you correctly observed about the F-22 the integration is often difficult- but to counter that concern it is also much more difficult for the bad guys to hack or jam, which may prove to be a silver lining.
Once the Raptor and Lightening begin to sortie together at Nellis, IMHO we will have a "dream team", and they are both growing and adding capability, once they begin to be integrated together as a fighting force, I believe the bad boys will have second thoughts about mixing it up in a serious contest where they will no doubt lose. While our friends continue to design and test upstart fifth gens, USAF will be banking on over 25 years of operational savvy in the L/O biz and the Navy and Marines will be fully informed and brought up to speed very swiftly. We must NOT let these aircraft be derailed by the un-believers, those who pulled the plug on the F-22, are ignorant enough to do the same on the F-35, which will compound our problems and significantly reduce our war fighting capability. Air Force Brat
 

mAIOR

New Member
Regarding the CUDA missile and it's advanced electronics, is there any info publicly available on how efficient and smaller are this new set of electronics compared to an AMRAAM? Because thinking of it a bit, by what you describe, it seems like this missile can push the AMRAAM tech to last century. Which is impressive since AMRAAM is still evolving...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Once the Raptor and Lightening begin to sortie together at Nellis, IMHO we will have a "dream team"
actually, the exciting bit is JSF and UAS working together.

progress on that front has been eyebrow lifting, in fact the F-22 is at the point where its needing to play catrch up if its going to be able to work within the broader force construct - something that the JSF was intended to do from day one and one of the critical lessons learnt out of what not to do vis a vis F-22 development
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
actually, the exciting bit is JSF and UAS working together.

progress on that front has been eyebrow lifting, in fact the F-22 is at the point where its needing to play catrch up if its going to be able to work within the broader force construct - something that the JSF was intended to do from day one and one of the critical lessons learnt out of what not to do vis a vis F-22 development
Makes you wonder, with the limited number of airframes available whether it would be more economical to develop the USNs proposed Super Hornet replacement as a replacement for the F-22 as well.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Regarding the CUDA missile and it's advanced electronics, is there any info publicly available on how efficient and smaller are this new set of electronics compared to an AMRAAM? Because thinking of it a bit, by what you describe, it seems like this missile can push the AMRAAM tech to last century. Which is impressive since AMRAAM is still evolving...
Well, I don't know of anything publicly available, but depending on how far along the project got before they were cancelled I guess there's a possibility CUDA might use some elements developed for the JDRADM. As far as NCADE goes I'm not sure what that would provide as I believe it was intended as an anti-ballistic missile but there could be some technology crossover somewhere. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some elements of commonality between AMRAAM-D and CUDA electronics, though this is all guesswork on my behalf, I think we'll probably be waiting for some time before we can be sure of anything to do with CUDA's performance characteristics let alone onboard electronics. It's certainly an interesting weapon though. I might hassle one of the F-22 pilots about it at Avalon later this week and see if they've heard much about it, although I'm sure I'll get about the same response from them as I did last time when I asked them about their datalink limitations... :p
 

colay

New Member
The need to fit into the F-35's weapon bay is likely going to be a major consideration when designing the new generation of aerial ordnance.
 
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aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
actually, the exciting bit is JSF and UAS working together.

progress on that front has been eyebrow lifting, in fact the F-22 is at the point where its needing to play catrch up if its going to be able to work within the broader force construct - something that the JSF was intended to do from day one and one of the critical lessons learnt out of what not to do vis a vis F-22 development
Now there is a post that many can educate themselves on !!

Especially the "Force Construct" rather than the usual single 2D facetted analysis :)
 
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