EU vs Russia who would win in this scenario.?

[d1ms]

Russia doesn't have the scientists, engineers or the facilities for this

Grand Danois might not have a brain Russia has all requred facilites to build new nukes and even perform nucklear tests, in fact almost weekly. A little, "one gramm-bombs", but it is more than enought to develop new warheads.
You live in a dream buddy.

Btw, Rusisian SSBN do1-2 deterrence patrols a year.

i bet you saw it with your eyes
Nobody knew for sure, but it is well prepared force. Of course, you may try to be next Napoleon or Hitler ....

 

[d1ms]

state your resouse tell me where you are

i'm in US, my resourses in Russian army itself, you may continue to beleive wiki

 

[Knjaz]

state your resouse tell me where you are getting your facts cause none of these are right according to to wikki global security and all other defense sites Russia military is dying right now and you are say it is the one word super power Russia is a dying super power man sorry..

10.000+ nukes and some other things are not true about Russian army... but wait?
Wikipedia? Globalsecurity? nfloorl: nfloorl: nfloorl:

Yeah, sry... forgot u live on the West. However that may be....

 

[Knjaz]

Tac nukes needs an overhaul pretty often (a few years to a decade), reworking of the fissile material, electronics degrading very quickly in tac nukes, replacing parts and testing, etc. Essentially building a new nuke.

Russia doesn't have the scientists, engineers or the facilities for this. Very maintenance heavy.

Try go for the 800 mark tac and strat.

Btw, Rusisian SSBN do1-2 deterrence patrols a year. French and UK SSBN do 8-12.

Wont comment on anything else due to current lack of info on these particular subjects, but you again greatly underestimate current Russian nuke production capability. And in 2023 it may only improve.

What amazes me when reading Wester opinions on Russia - its or greatly overestimated, or greatly underestimated. It's like a... tradition now, lol?

 

[Cyber Hero]

Heh most of the people discussing here are from the EU. Of course they will never-ever say that the EU is going to loose the war. In their heads Europe is always victorious!:shudder Fear the force of the US-satellites with no political power of their own!
Guys, please introduce a project of euro-tank which is currently in development that may match ob 195.
And in case of war I guess the EU will be very unstable. Of course who wants to work 14 hours a day at a factory after being a succesfull lawyer? Or freeze to death without russian gaz to warm the house? And those migrants... They are so loyal to the goverment and are so good soldiers!

 

[JonMusser]

i'm in US, my resourses in Russian army itself, you may continue to beleive wiki

so you know a russian general that telling you all this wow thats cool but i find it hard to beleive that you know some one in russia and he s just happy to tell you all their little secretrs you like fine thats cool but state your souses and please stop the Cusing and the cr@p like that it aint cool
oh and its funny to see some one get so worked up about russias aging military and its dreams of making a come back

 

[d1ms]

deleted

 

[JonMusser]

Wont comment on anything else due to current lack of info on these particular subjects, but you again greatly underestimate current Russian nuke production capability. And in 2023 it may only improve.

What amazes me when reading Wester opinions on Russia - its or greatly overestimated, or greatly underestimated. It's like a... tradition now, lol?

fine thats well and good except according to everything i have read they can build them but there duds 12 out of 13 nukes missiles tested failed and thats Russia latest and greatest scary nukes Russia has

 

[d1ms]

please stop the Cusing and the cr@p like that it aint cool

ok

oh and its funny to see some one get so worked up about russias aging military and its dreams of making a come back

come back? I don't understand you. Russia never attacked West; West always attacked Russia.

there duds 12 out of 13 nukes missiles tested failed and thats Russia latest and greatest scary nukes Russia has

first of all, it is 5 from 11 failed

second, the miscile is so new and powerfull, it is one inthe kind, capable to penetrate existing and future Anti Miscile Defence

third, show me any other country, who is developing new miscile like that

and finally, don't you beleive these failures will cause program to be shut down? Even if it have to be 10, 20, 50 more launches to make it work, Russians will complete it, no doubt

 

[JonMusser]

ok




come back? I don't understand you. Russia never attacked West; West always attacked Russia.

yes and russia lost cold war did it not?
the Russian economy although strong is vary unstable
the Russian navy hasn't been able to launch half as many ships as us...
the US military has 200 fith generation fighters how many does russia have?
tank production wow thats nice number when as well your other tanks are outdated if the Russian tanks posed a threat the us would develop a new tank and sell it to EU
russia has hows ever many bombers again the us has more that far exceed Russian and i am using us because it would not stand by and let russia dominate EU

 

[Cyber Hero]

We are discussing here the EU vs Russia scenario, not NATO vs Russia.

 

[Knjaz]

fine thats well and good except according to everything i have read they can build them but there duds 12 out of 13 nukes missiles tested failed and thats Russia latest and greatest scary nukes Russia has

You're talking about Bulava missile development, as i understand? Then it's ok, you just couldn't read anything reliable about what is going on - even in Russian media 90% of articles on this subject are full of b....t
In brief terms, development is going worse then predicted before, but still pretty fine - all the problems are more then solvable, and in nearest future. All this noise is probably because some... not very wise man a few years ago told that "very soon we will have new super missile which will bla bla bla...", while not understanding that development may take longer then expected due to huge number of innovations. Russia IS capable of development ICBMs and SLBMs and alrdy done that with latest Sineva (slbm, dont remember index - and its easy to confuse them, so if u will search for this missile u will probably find info on older Soviet version) and (icbm) "Yars".


Вопрос новоприбывшим - а что вообще происходит? откуда такой наплыв? )))

 

[Grand Danois]

What amazes me when reading Wester opinions on Russia - its or greatly overestimated, or greatly underestimated. It's like a... tradition now, lol?

Could be it's a tradition.

The thing is that so many Russia Strong types are still feeding off that Russia was a superpower just two decades ago. The real state of affairs wont materialize for even the most hardcore nationalist to see until, perhaps, 2023?

There are a few very hard facts, though. The tens of thousands of tanks from the Soviet have rusted away, the best having been refurbed and exported or have been used as spares - they are not in a condition to ever being used, and as each year passes they become more obsolescent as a design. Perhaps as the years passes, this may be evident to event the most hard core of people.

Deterrence patrols are pretty easy to get tabs on. This may improve as the yuri Dolgoryku (sp?) gets operational. However, just building them they eat a huge part of the defence procurementand and R&D budget, together with the new SSBN (about 25%). Btw, Russian ability to build nuclear subs came relatively unscathed through the turmoil of the 1990s, along with the armoured vehicles production capability.

As for nukes. I expects number of warheads to rise, with a focus on the strategics, but as is - I would put the most "optimistic" number at 2200.

Check up on the pace that S-400 is introduced. They're in the same situation as the longer ranged Iskanders that could have been placed in Kaliningrad. They're at operational units, but are in effect "fielded prototypes." Not because of immaturity of the systems, but because Russia is not able to build them in volume.

 

[d1ms]

yes and russia lost cold war did it not?

no, it did not The cold war was over by mutual agreement reached by Gorbachev and Reigan.
Then political and economic system collapsed, but it was internal transformation, what was caused by Russian people, and was a big surprise for West. Then Russia made good gesture, gave everything up, opened German border, destroyed weapons etc. West promised to never expand NATO to the east. We all know how West keeps it promises

the Russian economy although strong is vary unstable

hm, tell me, what just happened with "stable" western economy? Last year? What happened with AIG, Royal Schotland and other banks? Did GM filed for bancropcy of i was misinformed?

the Russian navy hasn't been able to launch half as many ships as us...

what do you mean? Build ships? of launch misciles from the ships? What is the point to have 5 ships if they carry less weapons than one Russian ship and it weapon is slow sub-sonic misciles?

the US military has 200 fith generation fighters how many does russia have?

you misinformed, it is 141 F-22, and only 55% of them is mission ready. Others need to be repaired, repainted and so on. Then they flew for 3 hours and go to repair for 105 hours. That is super weapon

Russia has 3 ground prototupes and one almost ready to fly PAKFA prototupe. Remember, Mig-29 took off long after F-16, but it still better than F-16; Su-27 was built after F-15, but it still superior than Eagle. It might be true for PAKFA and F-22.

Ah, I forgot to add: there are MIG-31, which algouth been buit in 1980 but still outperform most EU figters; MIG-31BM is no comparison at all.

Forget about figher-to-figher comparison. It never fly alone, it is very important WHERE it will fly. AS i mention, no west plane will survive in Russain Air space.

tank production wow thats nice number when as well your other tanks are outdated

other tanks been modernized, and they are no more outdated than most German tanks, for example. As I mention, Germany have couple hundreds really moredt Leopards-4 (?), everythng else same old as T-72.

Also, tank itself is not important; human inside is. Georgia recently had modernized by Israel T-72SIM, with heat seekers and GPS, but is lost everything, they lost tank battle to T-62 because their lack of gutpower and training.

if the Russian tanks posed a threat the us would develop a new tank and sell it to EU

"if Granmother would have di@k it would be grantfather"

russia has hows ever many bombers again the us has more that far exceed Russian and i am using us because it would not stand by and let russia dominate EU

So we came to conclusion: EU is nothing military wise without Big American Brother. Nothing to discuss more.

 

[kato]

Did you ever heard about Russian anti-ship misciles? Google Club-M, for example. Or Yahont (Brahmos). These little guys can fly at 3M speeds and kill any EU ship before it will say "F#ck!" there are no current defence against such weapon.

EU naval AAW systems, like US counterparts, are tested against Mach 2.8+ targets - thanks to Russia providing the necessary missiles for that no less.

Yakhont is deployed on how many ships? 2? 3?

 

[d1ms]

As for nukes. I expects number of warheads to rise, with a focus on the strategics, but as is - I would put the most "optimistic" number at 2200.

beleive me, it is more than enough for EU, if it will be so stupid to attack

Check up on the pace that S-400 is introduced. They're in the same situation as the longer ranged Iskanders that could have been placed in Kaliningrad. They're at operational units, but are in effect "fielded prototypes." Not because of immaturity of the systems, but because Russia is not able to build them in volume.

what volume, may i ask, let say, France or Germany building powerful Air defence systems like that? Or Iskander-like misciles?

 

[Knjaz]

Could be it's a tradition.

The thing is that so many Russia Strong types are still feeding off that Russia was a superpower just two decades ago. The real state of affairs wont materialize for even the most hardcore nationalist to see until, perhaps, 2023?

There are a few very hard facts, though. The tens of thousands of tanks from the Soviet have rusted away, the best having been refurbed and exported or have been used as spares - they are not in a condition to ever being used, and as each year passes they become more obsolescent as a design. Perhaps as the years passes, this may be evident to event the most hard core of people.

Deterrence patrols are pretty easy to get tabs on. This may improve as the yuri Dolgoryku (sp?) gets operational. However, just building them they eat a huge part of the defence budget, together with the new SSBN (about 25%). Btw, Russian ability to build nuclear subs came relatively unscathed through the turmoil of the 1990s, along with the armoured vehicles production capability.

As for nukes. I expects number of warheads to rise, with a focus on the strategics, but as is - I would put the most "optimistic" number at 2200.

Check up on the pace that S-400 is introduced. They're in the same situation as the longer ranged Iskanders that could have been placed in Kaliningrad. They're at operational units, but are in effect "fielded prototypes." Not because of immaturity of the systems, but because Russia is not able to build them in volume.

With the end of cold war, NATO disarmament (especially European) is also
a significant factor. Russia became weaker, but so are European countries. Too bad i have a bad memory so i dont even remember numbers, but i think you will agree with me on this point.

EDIT: and as i pointed out - NOONE ever plans on going to English Channel anymore. In this scenario, Russia would likely be in defensive, trying to hold Ukraine and repelling enemy invasion with the use of nukes. and i cant imagine how under these circumstances, say, France of Germany would force their people to go to war - especially taking into accout what is Ukraine and what's it history (starting from that Kiev has "nickname" of "Mother of Russian cities" for many centuries, and other things)

On subs - as i alredy mentioned, dont have (or more precisely - dont remember) any enough reliable info. Anyway, my knowledge on Fleet is worse of all combat branches (most likely, due to its least importance in Russian national defense)

On nukes - i'd say these 2200 of tact. + strat. would be very, very pessimistic, but, however that may be.

On S-400. The deployment of S400-only units are not as widescale, as, for example, i'd like. BUT. There's a modernization program going on S-300 deployed units, which implements the various components of S-400 system, thus greatly increasing their combat effectiveness.
The S-400, as a complex system, is not even fully finished yet. There're yet some components to be finished. But it doesnt mean it doesnt work - it's more like "ever-improving" system. like, current F15 are waaay different from those 20 years ago, from what i read.

 

[Grand Danois]

beleive me, it is more than enough for EU, if it will be so stupid to attack



what volume, may i ask, let say, France or Germany building powerful Air defence systems like that? Or Iskander-like misciles?

But they do. Systems like this

SAMP/T - Thales Group

is being rolled out faster than S-400 and when it gets time to replace Patriot with MEADS, this will also be rolled out faster.

Iskander? See GMLRS and ATACMs types.

 

[kato]

Germany and France are each buying 12 batteries of their next-generation LR SAM system.

Cruise Missiles? Procurement for Taurus, SCALP-EG and Storm Shadow together is 2.200 units by Germany, France, Italy, UK, and about 150 by Greece and Spain as minor customers.

Grand Danois: The only EU country to use ATACMS is Greece. GMLRS is so far only introduced by the UK, with 12 launchers.

 

[Grand Danois]

Germany and France are each buying 12 batteries of their next-generation LR SAM system.

Cruise Missiles? Procurement for Taurus, SCALP-EG and Storm Shadow together is 2.200 units by Germany, France, Italy, UK, and about 150 by Greece and Spain as minor customers.

And then there are some small stocks of TacToms, Harpoon Block II and possibly also an land attack variant of RBS15.

Anyhow, weren't France and Italy supposed to take delivery of 15 systems 2010-2013?

Btw, I'd put my money on SAMP/T for Romania.