Did the Pakistani JF-17 Block 2 beat Rafale jets in Antolation Eagle 2021 by a 6:2 score?

[KShehzad]

As previous answers have indicated the results of Anatolian Eagle 2021 will be kept in secrecy and any claims on the internet need to be taken with a pinch (I recommend a bucket) of salt.
The claims of the JF17 Block 2 beating Qatari Rafales 6:2 seems to have originated from Taiwanese sources (which is half a world way from Turkey).
There were also other articles on this issue; one which had the title of In the "Anatolian Eagle-2021" exercise, did Xiaolong defeat the gust?6:2? is a hodgepodge of information about JF17 specifications and has used incorrect information such as crediting Mig 21 and Su30 kills to JF17 on the aerial skirmish on 27 February 2019 (Pakistan Air Force has credited it to F16s).
Also all these articles claims that the JF17 outwitted the Rafale in WVR (which upsets many projections that JF17s best chances lies in BVR combat with the SD10 or PL15). This WVR victory was achieved according to the article because the PAF gamed their fighters with Chinese J10s during exercises. It also claimed that the Rafale pilot was actually a former Pakistani F16 pilot and wasn’t acclimatized to the Rafale but in the same article it states that pilots were Qataris who were taken aback by PAF tactics of which they weren’t knowledgeable.
The overall quality and obscurity of this website raises some question marks, in my mind, on the article. Also they never stated about their sources, they just plastered the information as it was widely available information.
However, regardless of outcomes of such dogfights Anatolian Eagle 2021 has been immensely helpful for all participants. The Qatari Rafales loadout of MICA mirrors current loadout of Indian Rafales which would be helpful in training.

 

[STURM]

It also claimed that the Rafale pilot was actually a former Pakistani F16 pilot and wasn’t acclimatized to the Rafale.

There was a point in time where Pakistani pilots on contract served in various Gulf Arab air arms. I have no idea if this is still the case given that compared to the 1980's and 1990''s Gulf Arab air arms have more trained pilots and have made significant improvements in their training infrastructure.

On the kill claims I have no idea how true this claim is but it's certainly not inconceivable; especially in a WVR engagement as part of an exercise. In 2014, an RMAF Hawk 200 scored a gun kill on a
F-22 but then it was in WVR in which an F-22 might not excel and the Malaysians are on record as saying detecting the F-22s on their F/A-18D radars was a major challenge.

 

[SABRE]

View attachment 49680
As previous answers have indicated the results of Anatolian Eagle 2021 will be kept in secrecy and any claims on the internet need to be taken with a pinch (I recommend a bucket) of salt.
The claims of the JF17 Block 2 beating Qatari Rafales 6:2 seems to have originated from Taiwanese sources (which is half a world way from Turkey).
There were also other articles on this issue; one which had the title of In the "Anatolian Eagle-2021" exercise, did Xiaolong defeat the gust?6:2? is a hodgepodge of information about JF17 specifications and has used incorrect information such as crediting Mig 21 and Su30 kills to JF17 on the aerial skirmish on 27 February 2019 (Pakistan Air Force has credited it to F16s).
Also all these articles claims that the JF17 outwitted the Rafale in WVR (which upsets many projections that JF17s best chances lies in BVR combat with the SD10 or PL15). This WVR victory was achieved according to the article because the PAF gamed their fighters with Chinese J10s during exercises. It also claimed that the Rafale pilot was actually a former Pakistani F16 pilot and wasn’t acclimatized to the Rafale but in the same article it states that pilots were Qataris who were taken aback by PAF tactics of which they weren’t knowledgeable.
The overall quality and obscurity of this website raises some question marks, in my mind, on the article. Also they never stated about their sources, they just plastered the information as it was widely available information.
However, regardless of outcomes of such dogfights Anatolian Eagle 2021 has been immensely helpful for all participants. The Qatari Rafales loadout of MICA mirrors current loadout of Indian Rafales which would be helpful in training.

There was a point in time where Pakistani pilots on contract served in various Gulf Arab air arms. I have no idea if this is still the case given that compared to the 1980's and 1990''s Gulf Arab air arms have more trained pilots and have made significant improvements in their training infrastructure.

On the kill claims I have no idea how true this claim is but it's certainly not inconceivable; especially in a WVR engagement as part of an exercise. In 2014, an RMAF Hawk 200 scored a gun kill on a
F-22 but then it was in WVR in which an F-22 might not excel and the Malaysians are on record as saying detecting the F-22s on their F/A-18D radars was a major challenge.

I think few Pakistani pilots may still be active in Qatar Air Force and they have hands on experience with Rafale. Other PAF pilots - serving in the PAF - have sufficiently participated in air exercises with Qatar and few other air forces that operate the French jet. It is likely that the JF-17 pilots did defeat Rafale but several factors need to be considered. i.e., experience and skill of pilots flying Rafale, experience and skill of pilots flying JF-17, wether the kill was WVR or BVR, etc. However, IMO, Rafale is a better capability and it has few tricks up its sleeve. Whether IAF pilots are able to tap those tricks is a matter best left to the potential aerial engagement in the future to reveal. Same goes for the PAF pilots and JF-17. Main concern for the IAF should be the JF-17 Block-3 and J-10C with their AESA radar and PL-15 medium to long-range A2A missile.

 

[STURM]

However, IMO, Rafale is a better capability and it has few tricks up its sleeve.

No doubt there. It has better LO features, a superior radar [I assume] and a better EW suite; amongst other things. It's also much more expensive so in theory it should be superior

Main concern for the IAF should be the JF-17 Block-3 and J-10C with their AESA radar and PL-15 medium to long-range A2A missile.

A lot would also depend if both sides were supported by AEW platforms and if there jamming.

The recent engagement fought between the two is interesting and indicative of how air warfare has evolved. The whole engagement lasted less than a minute if I'm not mistaken. There were jamming pods used and it was the first in which both sides had AEW coverage. Unfortunately there's quite a bit we still don't know; the IAF claims it shot down a F-16 but this hasn't been verified. The former editor of AFM had quite a bit to say. I've met him; nice chap but in my opinion he's a bit pro Pakistani.

 

[SABRE]

No doubt there. It has better LO features, a superior radar [I assume] and a better EW suite; amongst other things. It's also much more expensive so in theory it should be superior



A lot would also depend if both sides were supported by AEW platforms and if there jamming.

The recent engagement fought between the two is interesting and indicative of how air warfare has evolved. The whole engagement lasted less than a minute if I'm not mistaken. There were jamming pods used and it was the first in which both sides had AEW coverage. Unfortunately there's quite a bit we still don't know; the IAF claims it shot down a F-16 but this hasn't been verified. The former editor of AFM had quite a bit to say. I've met him; nice chap but in my opinion he's a bit pro Pakistani.

Yes, AEW was sufficiently and effectively employed, at least by the PAF.

If you can take my word for it, I can tell you on authority that NO F-16 was shot down.