China's Place as an Emerging Power

rip

New Member
^ Yeah you're right I can't make heads or tails of what you're on about and I have a sneaking suspicion that what you're saying doesn't have that much to do with China (I asked you explicity how China was destroying this system but you haven't even mentioned the country in your last post)...

I'll just end this part of our conversation here, unless other posters can clarify me on what rip is talking about, if they understand it themselves...
Here is another rambling post of mine trying to state the working importance of general principles instead of harping upon individual incidents that all you have to do is read a paper to discover.

There is a precedent with which you all know. When Japan decided to abandon its feudal system and adopt a modern one it unfortunately adopted the imperialist mode of the then European powers, believing that it was the way to greatness and prosperity. But even at the time that Japan adopted that model it was already obsolete. The imperialist powers kept their Colonies long after they stopped being on average profitable to them and were in fact on average a drain on the primary countries resources. But they could not see a way beyond their need for empires for a lots of reasons; I mainly think for a lack of imagination. My worry is a simple one, China has decided to modernize and become a major player in the world after a long period of self-imposed isolation much like Japan, where it did not participate in the general affairs of the world but is it too using an obsolete model for its advancement into the future?This is aquestion not an answer. If they pick the wrong model there will be sadness.

I will comment no more upon this subject and leave it to you guys.
 

godbody

New Member
Here is another rambling post of mine trying to state the working importance of general principles instead of harping upon individual incidents that all you have to do is read a paper to discover.

There is a precedent with which you all know. When Japan decided to abandon its feudal system and adopt a modern one it unfortunately adopted the imperialist mode of the then European powers, believing that it was the way to greatness and prosperity. But even at the time that Japan adopted that model it was already obsolete. The imperialist powers kept their Colonies long after they stopped being on average profitable to them and were in fact on average a drain on the primary countries resources. But they could not see a way beyond their need for empires for a lots of reasons; I mainly think for a lack of imagination. My worry is a simple one, China has decided to modernize and become a major player in the world after a long period of self-imposed isolation much like Japan, where it did not participate in the general affairs of the world but is it too using an obsolete model for its advancement into the future?This is aquestion not an answer. If they pick the wrong model there will be sadness.

I will comment no more upon this subject and leave it to you guys.
You brought up some interest points. All cultures or races go throught different phases in there development some did thing ahead of other and some are slower than others. Let's look at America period started as a small nation then did some adventure out in the west and got more land. Then it use free labor to built it economy(slaves). Then a civil war then came World War 1 and World War 2 that when US step up its game and never been the same. The US at one time was isolated for short time.This is just a short example of development of a nation. Look at history and you will see this with all kingdom, empires, and nations etc. It all boil down to thats just way it is. THE HUMAN RACE. My point is that every nation that developed to a point have to make this decision.
 

Sampanviking

Banned Member
I still haven't a clue as to what this system is other than the current status quo in which International Trade has recently become dominated by the dollar and therefore the US banking system.

I can only suppose that the complaint against China, is that its presence and influence is starting to change things. In that case it is a rather strange argument to make as every ascendancy is marked by changes to the previous status quo and the changing or melding of ideas and institutions from the ascendant power. Chinese Banks are opening around the world and facilitating RMB currency based transactions because the PRC and its companies have the business and money to make people want to come to them.

Complaining about this would be as daft as my complaining that the US did not set itself up in the early 20th Century, as a constitutional monarchy and give all its leaders hereditary titles, in deference to the British Empire.
 

rip

New Member
You brought up some interest points. All cultures or races go throught different phases in there development some did thing ahead of other and some are slower than others. Let's look at America period started as a small nation then did some adventure out in the west and got more land. Then it use free labor to built it economy(slaves). Then a civil war then came World War 1 and World War 2 that when US step up its game and never been the same. The US at one time was isolated for short time.This is just a short example of development of a nation. Look at history and you will see this with all kingdom, empires, and nations etc. It all boil down to thats just way it is. THE HUMAN RACE. My point is that every nation that developed to a point have to make this decision.
How true. During the sixty plus years of my lifetime, my country has changed a great deal, mostly for the better but not always (a personal opinion). It would seem reasonable that it will continue to change as we Americans continue to pursue our best ideals while trying to deal with the legacies of the past. We are all born into a world that we did not create and must deal with the world that we find.

But the issue we are most concerned with on this topic is China’s emergence as a great world power, which should be the natural development of its size and the dynamic nature of its people. Good for them. So what is the problem?

Well the problem is not unique to or specific to China but includes the whole world and everbody living within it. With seven billion people in the world and that number only rising, and if the health and prosperity of the world’s peoples are too continue to increase, a new level of cooperation between different countries, races, religions, and economies will have to achieved that has never been seen before in the world’s history. If we (all of us) fail to provide a reasonable pathway for new emerging economic, political, and military powers to advance and their people to fulfill themselves there will be conflict and possible disaster.

What makes China's unique as compared to other advancing countries is that it is rising so fast and that it is so big. Event in the best of worlds that alone would cause disruption but there is a more important problem. The problem is the way China see’s what its place in the world should be and what prerogatives it thinks comes with its new higher status. That is where the disconnect currently is.

I have a fairly recent example of a similar event but on a much, much smaller scale. When South Korea emerged as a formidable economic powerhouse not that long ago, it found that many of the trade rules it had prospered by and helped it advance to its fast rise were changed. Its first reaction was that the rest of the world, especially the US wasacting unfairly trying to hold it back from succeeding too much. It took them some time to understand that the things that were changed were the removal of economic sweeteners that were first put in to place specifically to help South Korea to build up its industrial economy and that as it advance from a poor weak country, to one of the first rank, the trade rules needed to be readjusted to an level standing as between equals. They protested at first but eventually understood that with increased power came with it increased responsibility, including responability to the economic system that helped them advance and now they are doing very well without the sweeteners. But Korea took a longer time to rise and is much smaller player than China and they never had the power to challenge the fundamentals of the world trading system and yes it is a system.

If the world it to continue to advance(as we all hope it will) and if there is to be peaceful place the whole world will have to come to a much better agreement as to what are acceptable forms of competition and what methods are acceptable to be use in pursuing them, though cooperation is essential, competition will never go away but it must be managed. That common agreement is yet to be forged and to forge it everyone will have to change something in the way that they act. What we are doing right here on this thread, is just a part of the process of reaching for those things that we can all agree upon. Each of us is promoting their views, trying to convince the others that their intended path it the one that leads to a better world. Otherwise why do it?
 

dtleio

New Member
As long history ago, the chinese king usually liked to consider their nation as the midcountry, it meaned the middle of the world. Indeed, few hunderd years the china was the center of world's culture and economy. We grandgrandgrand...grandpa ever invented the gunpowder,and west used it broke out the gate of our grandgrandpa‘s nation.

Through nearly 150 years shame time brought by weatern iron ship and powerful gun and worked hard recently 100 years, this old country is rebuilding his bright period which should belonged to her.

Lets see the future development of china next twenty years in this century,there must be more amazing. God bless China~!
 

rip

New Member
As long history ago, the chinese king usually liked to consider their nation as the midcountry, it meaned the middle of the world. Indeed, few hunderd years the china was the center of world's culture and economy. We grandgrandgrand...grandpa ever invented the gunpowder,and west used it broke out the gate of our grandgrandpa‘s nation.

Through nearly 150 years shame time brought by weatern iron ship and powerful gun and worked hard recently 100 years, this old country is rebuilding his bright period which should belonged to her.

Lets see the future development of china next twenty years in this century,there must be more amazing. God bless China~!
Yes, God bless China and all those that work hard to better themselves, their families and their country wherever they may be in peace and safety.
 

Belesari

New Member
As long history ago, the chinese king usually liked to consider their nation as the midcountry, it meaned the middle of the world. Indeed, few hunderd years the china was the center of world's culture and economy. We grandgrandgrand...grandpa ever invented the gunpowder,and west used it broke out the gate of our grandgrandpa‘s nation.

Through nearly 150 years shame time brought by weatern iron ship and powerful gun and worked hard recently 100 years, this old country is rebuilding his bright period which should belonged to her.

Lets see the future development of china next twenty years in this century,there must be more amazing. God bless China~!
:lul

Blaming 150 years of shame on "Western Ironships" is a easy out. The Chinese have done there own imperializing in the past. Find me nations that when given the opertunity haven't. The chinese became weak because of a ruling class that made sure stagnation in pretty much all areas was basicly law. This of course kept them (the beaurocracy) in power and riches.
Then nations who hadnt been stuck in such stagnation came and did what nations always do in that place. Took advantage. The obsession of blaming "Westerners" for all the ills inder the sun has gotten old. I'm not saying you specifically are but its an annoying habit. We didnt invent evil we just got really god at it for awhile:D

I Hope China can keep doing well and growing prosperus and more democratic. I would love to see them take on more roles as a global power. Would love to see them take there place as a 1st rate country.

I will admit to being partial to my own nation the US:rwb:usa and wish it to keep the number one spot. Do however wish the Chinese wouldwork on that Money devaluing thing.

Anyways here is to a Peaceful American/ Chinese relationship.
 

HKP

New Member
Split and moved. You may continue your discussion here.
of course its just normal that a China now with a robust economy and still growing will need a blue water navy to protect its interests at home and abroad. In addition, China is surrounded by threats from its neighbors like India, before it also include Russia but relations have warmed now with Russia, and some threats with the US with its military bases in Sokor and Japan, especially India is planning to acquire an aircraft carrier too. Any country as the size of China surrounded by threats will do the same, there is also threats from Islamic terrorists and separtist groups, I can see China also acquiring or building 2 or more aircraft carriers in the near future. This are all interesting to see and observe for me and see how she behaves also with the growing military power, For now China is employing soft power which is a good strategy, So if thats the case the Blue navy will mostly for defensive gestures
 

rip

New Member
of course its just normal that a China now with a robust economy and still growing will need a blue water navy to protect its interests at home and abroad. In addition, China is surrounded by threats from its neighbors like India, before it also include Russia but relations have warmed now with Russia, and some threats with the US with its military bases in Sokor and Japan, especially India is planning to acquire an aircraft carrier too. Any country as the size of China surrounded by threats will do the same, there is also threats from Islamic terrorists and separtist groups, I can see China also acquiring or building 2 or more aircraft carriers in the near future. This are all interesting to see and observe for me and see how she behaves also with the growing military power, For now China is employing soft power which is a good strategy, So if thats the case the Blue navy will mostly for defensive gestures
And soft power is good.

The bigger and richer you are, the bigger the target you are. And with that the more you get blamed for things that happen in the world even if you were not involved, because some will always think because you are big and rich you should have been involved and done something? But no matter what you do or you don't do someone will always be unhappy and blame you and never themselves. It is all a part of becoming a big if not someday, a great power. These are just observations.

There is something that cannot to brushed over between the Eastern type civilizations which are based mainly upon Confucianism and Taoism and the Western Type's based upon Plato and Socrates and it goes far beyond the confines of different competing political and economic systems which have waxed and waned on both sides over the years. It is the kind of social contract that exists between a population and their governance. The two major difference between Western and Eastern are, one, the goals of the societythat it wishes to acheave and two, the balance of power between the combined will of the people and those that govern them.

It each case East or West, they believe that their own system is the better to the other, when taken in the long term at least and each will likewise defends their point of view. I as a man of the west will defend and promote the western point of view but I try to understand the other point of view different to my own. The two differences are in the Western system the goal of the society to promoter the idea of never ending progress and in the Eastern it is to promote blissful harmony. It is easy to see how these goals are fundamentally at odds with each other. The balance of power in the Western system, is to where ever possible, to give as much power and responsibility to the individual while in the Eastern it is to give it primarily to the group. These differences often lead to disconnects where the two different kinds of civilizations come into close contact. I am not saying that these two different outlooks on how to build a civilization must lead to conflict but assuming too much similarity by either side of the ways of other, can and has to mistakes of judgment and intention.
 
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