Chechen insurgents get arms, explosives and tasks from Georgia!

Kantervo

New Member
Even the most cunning people strive for penance! According to a man who was a liaison between Chechen insurgents and Georgian politicians and businessmen, terrorism in Russia is sponsored by Georgian president Saakashvili, and the level of his hypocrisy overwhelms imagination. Let me present you Khizri Aldamov - a famous person in Russia's contemporary history. Aslan Maskhadov made him an official representative of the 'independent' Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (unofficial name, given to Chechnya by secessionists) to Georgia. He was the one who had organised the visit of the Ichkerian president to Tbilisi and provided his meeting with Shevardnadze (then Georgian President). After this meeting Chechen separatists got themselves a rear base in the Pankisi Gorge. In 2011 Aldamov had left Georgia and unexpectely turned up in Chechnya with a public confession. He explained the reasons of his behavior to a Russian newspaper, "Moskovski Komsomolets".
The interview is rather interesting, but I'll just post the excerpts:

Journalist: - What did Saakashvili plan to do with together Chechens after the war?
Aldamov: - Plans were the same: plotting and performing terrorist attacks in Russia. To achieve this a lot of money is needed. Saakashvili and his men had traveled to Arab countries and determinated, that the money, which had been used to finance insurgents would be transferred through the Georgian Bank they control. The distribution of money is the duty of George Gamsakhurdia (Deputy Minister for diaspora ) and a member of parliament Tsiklauri. Money also passes through Ukraine. Terrorist attacks in Russia come from Georgia.


Whether it' true or not, the man gives further details:
"They (Georgians) created an oranisation that controls all Chechen refugees in Georgia, all the militants. The main authority is the counter-terrorist center. After it stands Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs. All business with Chechens is oversaw by the Deputy Interior Minister Gia Lordkipanidze. He sends people, if necessary, to commit terroristic attacks. Money to pay for it is paid through the Pankisi Jamaat. Jamaat is in their hands. There are militants in Pankisi now."

Saakashvili wants him dead, poor guy even suffered a poisoning attempt.

Finally, he is asked whether he was directly involved in the commissioning of weapons and ammunition or not. And the answer is positive:
- Yes. I managed everything: money, and weapons. Everything passed through me. And Saakashvili knows that I know everything. Former intelligence chief Avtandil Ioseliani, which was asassinated in 2007, oversaw the process in the Pankisi Gorge. He was a friend of my assistant. They had a warehouse in Senaki, where somehow 120 tons of TNT were brought from Bulgaria. Now , Saakashvili's special services sell TNT to Chechens.
After this confession all speeches of Georgian politicians about peacefull development and NATO membership IMHO make no sense.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
It doesn't make sense for Christian Georgia to sponsor Islamic terrorists. This is most likely an attempt by Russia to justify their invasion of Georgia and annexation of Ossetia. High ranking Russian officials recently admitted that the 2008 war with Georgia was planned for by their military.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
It doesn't make sense for Christian Georgia to sponsor Islamic terrorists.
Since when are the actions of countries or groups solely dictated by religon? Syria intervened in the Lebanese civil war, on the side of the Christians who were fighting against left wing Palestinian and other groups. Iraq supported Michel Aoun, when he was fighting against the Syrians. After the Israeli invasion in 1982, a lot of Shia initially supported Israel but later turned against it as result of flawed Israeli policies.

Countries will do what is in their best interest, regardless of religion or other factors.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Countries will do what is in their best interest, regardless of religion or other factors.
How is supporting Chechen separatists in Georgia's interests? It would only put them in a bad light with NATO for supporting terrorists, and further provoke Russia. Georgians would have to be out of their minds to support Islamic terrorists.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
How is supporting Chechen separatists in Georgia's interests? It would only put them in a bad light with NATO for supporting terrorists, and further provoke Russia. Georgians would have to be out of their minds to support Islamic terrorists.
Since when does logic and common sense apply with regards to policy?

I'm not saying that Georgia is indeed 'supporting' Chechen insurgents - I doubt it but that's just my opinion - if it is true however, they must think there's a good reason for it. In the past, there were statements made by Russia, that Chechens were 'operating' in the Pankisi gorge and that the Georgian government was not doing anything about it. Anyway, my post was directed at your statement regarding 'Christian' Georgia and 'Islamic' terrorists and was intended to point out the fact that religon often does not play a part in determining policy.
 

Kantervo

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
The problem is that the actions of Chechen insurgents are based not solely on jihad, they are secessionists first of all. They are interested in destroying territorial integrity of Russia and getting themselves an independent state and that's what they have in common with Georgian president who is interested in the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Jihad for Chechen separatists is only a tool to strengthen their fighting spirit and morale.
 
The problem is that the actions of Chechen insurgents are based not solely on jihad, they are secessionists first of all. They are interested in destroying territorial integrity of Russia and getting themselves an independent state and that's what they have in common with Georgian president who is interested in the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Jihad for Chechen separatists is only a tool to strengthen their fighting spirit and morale.
Jihad is a tool for the militants, the general population is indeed mostly secular and driven by a secessionist sentiment at most (not all want to secede from Russia).
I doubt, however, the Georgians are interested in destroying the territorial integrity of Russia - that is precisely what they want to avoid in their own home. Normally, if a country is battling a serious secessionist movement, they are against similar movements in other countries, so as not set a precedent, especially when it's happening in their own backyard. Besides, what do they gain by promoting a new, unstable, volatile, possibly radical Islamic state on their borders? It's not going to stop a Russian military from entering Georgia if they need to, so what would be the point? The only possible motive is to piss off the Russians, which Saakashvili loves to do, but even for his crazy head it seems insufficient.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
They are interested in destroying territorial integrity of Russia and getting themselves an independent state
It really depends on whom you are asking doesn't it? For the Russians, Chechen attempts to breakaway is indeed an attempt at 'destroying territorial integrity of Russia', as you put it, but for the Chechens involved in the uprising, they are merely seeking their right to be independent, as for them, Chechnya should not be part of the Russian Federation. Ironically, some Chechens who later fought the Russians in Chechnya, were part of the defenders of the White House in Moscow, during the 1991 coup attempt - and off course many of them had fought in Afghanistan as part of the Soviet military

Jihad is a tool for the militants, the general population is indeed mostly secular and driven by a secessionist sentiment at most (not all want to secede from Russia).
For the first few years of the uprising, 'jihad' was never a tool, nor was religion an important factor. Over time, as they got more desperate and the Russians increased the military pressure, the Chechen leadership started to use religion as a unifying factor - this process has been described by author Yusef Bodansky a ''Chechanisation', a process in which secular rebels/organisations become more radical over time or use religion more, for a variety of reasons. The Chechens also received cash aid from Muslim individuals and organisations in places such as Turkey and the Middle East and received help from Muslim foreign volunteers, who viewed the uprising as part of a global jihad. Some of these volunteers, as well as many Chechens, had previously fought in Abhkazia. The 'Chechanisation' process was to play into the hands of the Russians as they could claim that 'Islamic terrorists' were involved and that a breakaway Chechnya would be an extremist Islamic state, that would be a refuge for other terrorists, intend on spreading more mayhem to other parts of the Caucasus and the rest of southern Russia. After 9/11, not many countries were willing to question this claim or to criticise Russian policy in Chechnya.
 
Last edited:

SolarWind

Active Member
For the first few years of the uprising, 'jihad' was never a tool, nor was religion an important factor. Over time, as they got more desperate and the Russians increased the military pressure, the Chechen leadership started to use religion as a unifying factor - this process has been described by author Yusef Bodansky a ''Chechanisation', a process in which secular rebels/organisations become more radical over time or use religion more, for a variety of reasons. The Chechens also received cash aid from Muslim individuals and organisations in places such as Turkey and the Middle East and received help from Muslim foreign volunteers, who viewed the uprising as part of a global jihad. Some of these volunteers, as well as
many Chechens, had previously fought in Abhkazia. The 'Chechanisation' process was to play into the hands of the Russians as they could claim that 'Islamic terrorists' were involved and that a breakaway Chechnya would be an extremist Islamic state, that would be a refuge for other terrorists, intend on spreading more mayhem to other parts of the Caucasus and the rest of southern Russia. After 9/11, not many countries were willing to question this claim or to criticise Russian policy in Chechnya.
Later events seem to support these Russian claims. And the US also defined at least some Chechen separatists as terrorist groups. From CFR.org:
...According to the U.S. State Department, the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade (IIPB) is the primary channel for Islamic funding of the Chechen guerillas, in part through links to al-Qaeda-related financiers on the Arabian Peninsula. The United States also defined the Chechnya-based Special Purpose Islamic Regiment (SPIR) and the Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs as terrorist entities in February 2003.

Chechnya's long and violent guerrilla war has attracted a small number of Islamist militants from outside of Chechnya--some of whom are Arab fighters with possible links to al-Qaeda. Among the Islamist militants, the most prominent was Basayev, Russia's most wanted man. Basayev fought for Chechen independence for more than a decade, and was the mastermind behind the worst terrorist attacks on Russian soil. On July 10, 2006, Basayev was killed in an explosion in neighboring Ingushetia. His death cast doubt on the future of the Chechen separatist movement, and allegedly led to the surrender of five hundred militants. Four months later, Russian security forces killed Abu Hafs al-Urdani, the Jordanian-born commander of foreign fighters in Chechnya. Since then, violence in Chechnya has ebbed, though terrorism in the areas of Dagestan and Ingushetia has increased.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Nobody is 'questioning' the fact that Chechen groups have engaged in acts that have led to civilians being killed, of which there is no excuse. At the same time however, perhaps we should ask ourselves as to why would Chechens want to engage in such heinous crimes in the first place - could it possibly be in response to something the Russians may have did in Chechnya? Perhaps the spokesman of the US. State Department would like to explain this to us also?
 

Sampanviking

Banned Member
One of the most interesting aspects of this story is just how little interest there has been in it in the Western Media. In fact the name Khizri Aldamov does not even produce any results in any major US or UK news site search engine!

Considering that this is a man in the know, effectively calling the US a State Sponsor of Terrorism, this is surprising.

More interesting again, is how Russia will use this?
Clearly it provides Moscow with a viable Casus Belli against Georgia. Other nations have used less to justify military occupation.
Will this be used to settle the score with Saakashvili or is it being used as a counter to ensure no external intervention in Syria?

One thing is for sure, if Russia took Georgia, it would remove a possible strike point against Iran and put Russian Ground Forces against the East Turkish border once more.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
An interesting discussion, given that Russia, in the early 90s, paid the Chechens to fight against Georgia in Abkhazia.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Shamil Basayev fought in Abkhazia, as did numerous other Chechens. Not sure about Aslan Mashadov though.
 
Top