Black Hawk down.

[rjmaz1]

An Australian Black Hawk crashed tonight off Fiji. 1 confirmed dead and i belive 1 missing. They crashed into the sea, information is limited to that so far.

Not good, and they were operating off the same boat that the Sea King crashed from

Surely its not the same maintenance crew.

If the log books go missing again, heads will roll.

Off topic, but its about time Australia woke up and updated its equipment instead of wasting 20 billion on the JSF.

 

[Smythstar]

Army pilots trying to land on Navy ships maybe?

Yep Lateline just reported 2 deaths what a terrible terrible shame!

No ones speculating yet however one thing is certain, this coup happy Fijian Generalisimo has now cost us two of our own.
Trouble in Tonga, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Timor Lest and perhaps Papua New Guinea all while we have major deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It seems to me and I hate to say it, but perhaps its time these people who live by and large on our aid and generosity and do little else but critisise Australia and threaten to go to China for support every time they spit the dummy are held responisble for their actions and an example made of them by Australia and New Zealand.

By and large I have been a supported of the softly softly approach in the south Pacific but this is beyond a joke now and is a serious threat to our national security and now its cost us lives!

Its all been carrot so far from Australia "perhaps" its time to get out the stick.
Would 18 Abrams fit on the Tobruk?
Maybe 2 Abrams and 16 fuel trucks for them?

 

[abramsteve]

A real tradedgy. My sympathy to the loved ones of the killed.

I also feel sorry for the crew of the Kanimbla, two losses in as many years.

 

[abramsteve]

Army pilots trying to land on Navy ships maybe?

Yep Lateline just reported 2 deaths what a terrible terrible shame!

No ones speculating yet however one thing is certain, this coup happy Fijian Generalisimo has now cost us two of our own.
Trouble in Tonga, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Timor Lest and perhaps Papua New Guinea all while we have major deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It seems to me and I hate to say it, but perhaps its time these people who live by and large on our aid and generosity and do little else but critisise Australia and threaten to go to China for support every time they spit the dummy are held responisble for their actions and an example made of them by Australia and New Zealand.

By and large I have been a supported of the softly softly approach in the south Pacific but this is beyond a joke now and is a serious threat to our national security and now its cost us lives!

Its all been carrot so far from Australia "perhaps" its time to get out the stick.
Would 18 Abrams fit on the Tobruk?
Maybe 2 Abrams and 16 fuel trucks for them?

Mate, whilst I understand your sentiment, and agree with you to some extent, now is not the time to lash out at others. Not other nations, not defence officials, or even the media. Lets find out what happened then go from there.

 

[knightrider4]

Unfortunate

Unfortunate indeed, however military operations always carry an element of risk. Condolences of course go out to the colleagues and families of those serving members who have lost their lives. Having read some media releases it appears that the aircraft lies in 2000-3000 meters of water and recovery will be highly unlikely so the root cause of this accident may never be known. Apparently the accident was leaked to the media which causes unecessary heartache and worry for many defence families and the party responsible for these leaks should be well and truly reamed.

 

[RubiconNZ]

Ninemsn is reporting that the SASR were on board, frickin fantastic I bet the Regiment is thrilled to have that out in public, whoever supports freedom of the press :lul bunch of tossers trying to make money, not to mention every family with a loved one on ops in the area, whoever reported the story and its company should be smacked with a massive fine, I cant stand that shit.

It seems not only bad luck for Kanimbla but another incident with SASR and blackhawks, One soldier died from injuries and one missing, eight others I believe were recovered safely. This comes as the Fiji military launches "exercises" including as widely known a large force of reservists called up, Suva is being "secured" by the Army, looks like theres going to be a scrap. They also launched a "barrage of flares over the Suva harbour" the latest Australian article is here:
http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20845270-31477,00.html

The ADF Breifing can be found here:
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/audio/061129/blackhawk.wmv

 

[Gibbo]

Sad news indeed - our thoughts are with the ADF involved & their families.

And good on you Aussies for once again reading the situation right and getting forces offshore ready for an immediate evac of civvies - you did the same with East Timor earlier this year.

On the other hand we (NZ) as to be expected appear to be conspicuous by our absence. Why the hell hasn't the NZ Gvot tasked the NZDF with getting NZ civvies out now by plane - and have a frigate stationed with RAN.

No-one's talking invasion, the forces are there to protect & evac civvies, end of story! So be it if it takes SAS...it won't be an invasion, but it looks like it could be opposed! Wake up NZ govt!

 

[Whiskyjack]

Sad news indeed - our thoughts are with the ADF involved & their families.

And good on you Aussies for once again reading the situation right and getting forces offshore ready for an immediate evac of civvies - you did the same with East Timor earlier this year.

On the other hand we (NZ) as to be expected appear to be conspicuous by our absence. Why the hell hasn't the NZ Gvot tasked the NZDF with getting NZ civvies out now by plane - and have a frigate stationed with RAN.

No-one's talking invasion, the forces are there to protect & evac civvies, end of story! So be it if it takes SAS...it won't be an invasion, but it looks like it could be opposed! Wake up NZ govt!

Indeed a sad day. As Gibbo says out thoughts are with the loved ones at this time.

The Fijian army does not oppose Kiwi's and Aussies leaving...just Kiwi and Aussie troops arriving. No evacuation of foreigners is opposed and indeed is progressing through the flights in and out.

I wonder if the sound of the exercising helo's has not been heard from the mainland over the past few days and may have contributed to the exercise in Fiji last night.

 

[icelord]

If we look at this right, and for the love of good do try, then first reports say that the Army Helo was landing when it hit the deck and rolled, AFAIK Seahawks have a different suspension for landing reguarly on LPD, if the Army pilot was coming in hard then he may not have been ready for the impact compared to landing on the ground, something i'm sure they are trained for, but if the ship rocks, then he may not be used to adjusting and lost control. RJMAZ1 first reaction would of course be "another blackhawk problem" but lets look at this in a non critical way, and especially for the crew of the Kanimbla, last thing they would want is people blaming thier maintanence team.
The black hawk is still quite modern, and the US is making more to last till 2020, ours are going to 2015 when the NH-90 will replace them from 2010-12?, so the JSF has nothing to do with this at all, as its already been done.

 

[chargerRT]

thoughts and prayers are,as always,with the friends,family,and ADF personnel.

 

[Aussie Digger]

An Australian Black Hawk crashed tonight off Fiji. 1 confirmed dead and i belive 1 missing. They crashed into the sea, information is limited to that so far.

Not good, and they were operating off the same boat that the Sea King crashed from

Surely its not the same maintenance crew.

If the log books go missing again, heads will roll.

Off topic, but its about time Australia woke up and updated its equipment instead of wasting 20 billion on the JSF.

We already have mate. The MRH-90 has been ordered as a replacement for the Blackhawk, with Army getting 40x new build MRH-90's. Considering the enhanced lift capacity of the MRH-90 this is a substantial increase in capability over that which we presently have.

 

[Magoo]

Apologies Mods, but...

An Australian Black Hawk crashed tonight off Fiji. 1 confirmed dead and i belive 1 missing. They crashed into the sea, information is limited to that so far.

Not good, and they were operating off the same boat that the Sea King crashed from

Surely its not the same maintenance crew.

If the log books go missing again, heads will roll.

Off topic, but its about time Australia woke up and updated its equipment instead of wasting 20 billion on the JSF.

Geez rjmaz...the bodies aren't even cold and already you're looking to apportion blame for something that you know NOTHING about. Maintenance crews? Log books??? WTF?:lul

I really think you need to keep it zipped until you have something hard to go on, and even then, try to be just a little sensitive towards the families, friends and colleagues of those who have been lost.

Go back to the A-10 thread where you belong...

Magoo

 

[Big-E]

Off topic, but its about time Australia woke up and updated its equipment instead of wasting 20 billion on the JSF.

You can only upgrade for so long until things like this tragedy happen. You need new equipment like JSF.

 

[WaterBoy]

WD Magoo!

Military tactical flying is by its very nature, inherently hazardous. That’s why the ADF, like other defence forces devote significant resources, time & effort in selecting, training & equipping the personnel undertaking these tasks. The motivation & dedication demonstrated by these professionals should not be so glibly insulted, particularly by individuals who are unwilling & unable to make the same sacrifices.

Furthermore, asking these professionals & their families to endure these risks without providing the most suitable equipment & training is immoral & contemptible. Insulting these professionals following a tragedy is equally disgraceful, particularly by individuals who are ignorant of any but the most basic facts.

My most sincere condolences to the family, friends & colleagues of those involved.

Regards,

WaterBoy

 

[mickk]

Crash footage

The inquiry into this crash began today.

Despite requests from the Australin Military, at the highest level, Retired NSW Supreme Court judge David Levine who is conducting the inquiry refused the request not to release footage of the accident.

It will be on Youtube etc in a matter of minutes I expect.

What you will see is the most shocking attempt at a high speed landing on a ship that could ever be imagined. No one would attempt to land a chopper like this on dry land, not even in battle, let alone on a ship.

The footage is so surreal its almost as though it is from a videogame.

This coroner is going to kick the guts out of the Australian military and judging by the footage, it will be deserved.

 

[blueorchid]

The inquiry into this crash began today.

Despite requests from the Australin Military, at the highest level, Retired NSW Supreme Court judge David Levine who is conducting the inquiry refused the request not to release footage of the accident.

It will be on Youtube etc in a matter of minutes I expect.

What you will see is the most shocking attempt at a high speed landing on a ship that could ever be imagined. No one would attempt to land a chopper like this on dry land, not even in battle, let alone on a ship.

The footage is so surreal its almost as though it is from a videogame.

This coroner is going to kick the guts out of the Australian military and judging by the footage, it will be deserved.

So the inquiry has only just opened and you know the result of it already
The pilot was known by the SAS as safe pilot to fly with, do you think that his normal landings were a high speed like this one? Just wait until all the facts are known before trying "to kick the guts out of the Australian military"

 

[Tasman]

The inquiry into this crash began today.

Despite requests from the Australin Military, at the highest level, Retired NSW Supreme Court judge David Levine who is conducting the inquiry refused the request not to release footage of the accident.

It will be on Youtube etc in a matter of minutes I expect.

What you will see is the most shocking attempt at a high speed landing on a ship that could ever be imagined. No one would attempt to land a chopper like this on dry land, not even in battle, let alone on a ship.

The footage is so surreal its almost as though it is from a videogame.

This coroner is going to kick the guts out of the Australian military and judging by the footage, it will be deserved.

The descent was so fast that it appeared to me that the helo was out of control prior to impact on Kanimbla's deck.

I am amazed that this video has been made public. The relatives of the dead servicemen requested that it not be made public and I can't see what good it will possibly achieve. What it will lead to is endless speculation and finger pointing regarding who was at fault.

Cheers

 

[alexsa]

So the inquiry has only just opened and you know the result of it already
The pilot was known by the SAS as safe pilot to fly with, do you think that his normal landings were a high speed like this one? Just wait until all the facts are known before trying "to kick the guts out of the Australian military"

Agreed. some comments I have heard suggest there were no failures with the aircraft but other factors may have casued the accident.

I don't think the ADF 'deserves to get kicked in the guts' as blue orchid has suggested and we should wait for the outcome before judging.

 

[mickk]

The footage speaks for itself, thats why it has been made public.

The facts have been made public as well if you care to read them. The weather was no good, the wind was no good, the speed was no good, the command was no good, the exercise was no good it should have been aborted and the pilot acted recklessly.

http://media.fairfax.com.au/?rid=29074

 

[alexsa]

The footage speaks for itself, thats why it has been made public.

The facts have been made public as well if you care to read them. The weather was no good, the wind was no good, the speed was no good, the command was no good, the exercise was no good it should have been aborted and the pilot acted recklessly.

http://media.fairfax.com.au/?rid=29074

No the press have reproted the fact as THEY see them and this is not necessarily how the inquiry will see them. for that we must wait.

The weather was nothing serious from the footage and 15 knots wind is no great problem either and helecopters safely work in worse. The training was high risk as some types of training always will be... it should be left at that until the finding is handed down... until then I am not inclined to support any judgement drawn on the basis of what the press may wish to report and how they decide to interpret it. In these cases 'effect' is more important than accuracy.