Jason_kiwi
New Member
I heard NZSAS is the best because they send NZSAS troops to the usa and uk to train them.
best special forces
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Jason_kiwi
New Member
so mayb the kiwi sas is the best
They have been around for quite some time. I guess the best is between those two SAS and NZSAS. But I think its quite hard to determine, unless they do head to head in a competition, but that would probebly still not give the correct outcome, your always better prepeared for the real thing then a competition as your life is on stake in one, but in the other its just a silly title.
Siga said:
depending when you are talking about the the aboroginal sof who were around during the communist emergancy were really good they were trackers and obviously head hunters... i think they are called the senoi prak... their skill was use recently when those 3 kids got lost in the forest. Ex members of the senoi prak were braught in 3 days after the army, police, rangers couldnt find them and they came in and found them within 6 hrs... and this guys are in their late 50s... they have been disbanded the senoi prak is now the royal malaysian rangers
The VAT 69 were also very experience and were very active during the communist emergancy
besides that you got to know the PASKAL they are very experience in dealing with pirates in malaysian waters... there are lots of pictures on paskal and it is known they are the best of the best of the best among malaysian SOF their gear is awsome too.. prob bcs the oil companies give them funding since part of their job req is to secure off shore platforms.
this are a few links you can check out about the various sof in malaysia.... but the pictures there are really old like prob taken in the early 90s .... really easy to know due to the fact they are holding M-16s and malaysia now uses styers ... the new pics of them are in local defence magazines and i dont think i can show them on this site due to copy right.
The problem about malaysian SOF is that infomation about them are not very well known and just as well cause you dont want your enemy to know too much about what they can and cant do. And the other problem is that malaysia is reforming its whole army and many old sof that are design for gurrila warfare are being retrain and turn into conventional sof... just like the army
some links that might intrest you
http://navypaskal.cjb.net/
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Malaysia/Main_Page.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~gerak_khas/vat69role.htm
http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/richie/1088/rngr.html
taskforce505
New Member
I'd like to correct a few stuffs that Paxter wrote about the Malaysian sof...
and the links you've posted are outdated...but then thats the only websites available where you can ind info about msian sof besides some forums
the senoi praaq is still in existence today...and is under the Royal Msian Police(RMP) paramilitary wing...and they are one of the best trackers/hunters...they saw action in vietnam...if im not mistaken..it was the CIA who sought their services to kick some VC backsides...
VAT69 is also still in existence...in the RMP paramilitary wing as well...they are officially called PGK B these days
i cant really agree with u paxter that Paskal (naval special forces) are the best...they might be...but they certainly are the best equipped sof element in Msia or even asia?...their equipment are the same as those used by US seals...they train together very often too...and i have to add that they are the most high-profile sof element in Msia as well...due to the fact that they have to conduct anti-terror & anti-piracy demonstrations to the media now and then...
the army has its own sof as well...the Grup Gerak Khas (GGK)...these dudes are the best jungle warfare specialists...it's organization have been restructured...and they have recently moved to a new multi-million ringgit base...one of the best sof bases in the region...they are the proud bearers of the green berret...they served with the SAS either in Bosnia or Somalia..i dont remember... as part of a CRT (combat rescue team)
last stop...airforce...previously it had an elite SAR team called Handau...and only recently...maybe a couple of years ago...it was restructured..renamed Paskau...and is now a trully sof unit within the armed forces...
and like Paxter said...its hard to find information regarding missions of the Msian sofs...kept in utmost secrecy i suppose
...not many malaysians even know we have these sort of units...
and the links you've posted are outdated...but then thats the only websites available where you can ind info about msian sof besides some forums
the senoi praaq is still in existence today...and is under the Royal Msian Police(RMP) paramilitary wing...and they are one of the best trackers/hunters...they saw action in vietnam...if im not mistaken..it was the CIA who sought their services to kick some VC backsides...
VAT69 is also still in existence...in the RMP paramilitary wing as well...they are officially called PGK B these days
i cant really agree with u paxter that Paskal (naval special forces) are the best...they might be...but they certainly are the best equipped sof element in Msia or even asia?...their equipment are the same as those used by US seals...they train together very often too...and i have to add that they are the most high-profile sof element in Msia as well...due to the fact that they have to conduct anti-terror & anti-piracy demonstrations to the media now and then...
the army has its own sof as well...the Grup Gerak Khas (GGK)...these dudes are the best jungle warfare specialists...it's organization have been restructured...and they have recently moved to a new multi-million ringgit base...one of the best sof bases in the region...they are the proud bearers of the green berret...they served with the SAS either in Bosnia or Somalia..i dont remember... as part of a CRT (combat rescue team)
last stop...airforce...previously it had an elite SAR team called Handau...and only recently...maybe a couple of years ago...it was restructured..renamed Paskau...and is now a trully sof unit within the armed forces...
and like Paxter said...its hard to find information regarding missions of the Msian sofs...kept in utmost secrecy i suppose
...not many malaysians even know we have these sort of units...perfectgeneral
New Member
Pendekar said:
The yardstick has gone metric, but it is still the SAS. Their equipment now includes a pet battallion of paratroopers for added fire support (for airport raids etc.). Not that they would need them for a hostage situation. Quite a few of the regiment living in post boxes (OP) and such watching terror suspects right now, I expect. Didn't the SAS start up the Malaysian SOF?
Candu Hill
New Member
perfectgeneral said:
afirmative...
the GGK was set up by the Royal Marine Commando
the VAT 69 was set up by the Special Boat Service
The 10th Brigade (Para) Rapid Deployment Force was trained by officer from British 5th Airborne Brigade.
the connection with the british is shown with the beret they using...green for GGK, cream for VAT 69 and maroon red for the Para...
Just a blast to the past, and sorry if they've already been mentioned, but the Saffa's and (former) Rhodesian SPF's would give anyone a run for their money in svereal environments.
Some of the fellow Brits pushing our boys units would do well to read a few accounts by SAS lads that went to Rhodesia and described their units as the best they had ever encountered.
Also, perhaps a special mention for the French FL CRAPs? Chidish responses to start below I guess...!
Some of the fellow Brits pushing our boys units would do well to read a few accounts by SAS lads that went to Rhodesia and described their units as the best they had ever encountered.
Also, perhaps a special mention for the French FL CRAPs? Chidish responses to start below I guess...!
ashblackhawk
Banned Member
lil ANZAC said:
I think that israeli SF are good in antihijack and urban and desert warfare with latest piece of electronics equipments. I dont know weather anyone knows about the speciality of Indian special forces in field of jungle warfare. US, French, Italian special forces are sometimes trained in east indian Jungle warfare school to train em in high temperature, high humidity jungle warfare scenario's may be similar conditions to Africa. :coffee
Cheers
Back to the Moscow theater seige.
Personally I think the gas idea was a good one badly implemented. The hostage takers after all had the capacity and willingness to blow themselves up along with the hostages at a moment's notice.
The chemical used was fentanyl, or a derivative of it. This drug is a high powered version of morphine, found in any operating room. It doesn't have a smell. and is lipid soluble so it can be absorbed through the lungs, it doesn't cause allergies.
Some accounts of the Moscow Theater Seige have implied that many hostages died from the gas because they were weakened by lack of food and water. This is probably incorrect - It is more probable that the hostages were intentionally starved to empty their stomachs - this precaution is standard procedure in the medical community.
Most of the deaths were probably due to respiratory arrest, leading to brain damage from lack of oxygen. This may have been averted if well trained medics followed closely at the heels of the alfas to administer the antidote quickly if not to all the hostages, to the most vulnerable, the elderly and the children. The time it took to bring the unconscious hostages outside and into the ambulances would have been too long to prevent brain damage.
Why did the authorities not reveal what the drug was? I can hazard 2 reasons.
1. The medics didn't need to know what the drug was in order to treat the patients. All they needed to do was to maintain oxygenation, the very first step in rescusitation. Supplemental oxygen, a breathing bag, and a mask might have been enough. Those who were already brain damaged would not have benefitted from the antidote anyway.
2. The authorities didn't reveal the drug used because now that the secret is out, future hostage takers can very easily take precautions. You don't need a gas mask to stop fentanyl, a pill containing amphetamines, or a shot of narcan would do the trick. Both are easy to procure.
What they got wrong was that they seriously underestimated the need for medical support for this operation. They'd have needed a antidote, oxygen, suction tubes, and a set of bags and masks for EACH of the hostages, not to mention around 2 medics per hostage. Had they gotten the medical part of the operation right, I'm convinced the casualties would have been much, much lower.
Personally I think the gas idea was a good one badly implemented. The hostage takers after all had the capacity and willingness to blow themselves up along with the hostages at a moment's notice.
The chemical used was fentanyl, or a derivative of it. This drug is a high powered version of morphine, found in any operating room. It doesn't have a smell. and is lipid soluble so it can be absorbed through the lungs, it doesn't cause allergies.
Some accounts of the Moscow Theater Seige have implied that many hostages died from the gas because they were weakened by lack of food and water. This is probably incorrect - It is more probable that the hostages were intentionally starved to empty their stomachs - this precaution is standard procedure in the medical community.
Most of the deaths were probably due to respiratory arrest, leading to brain damage from lack of oxygen. This may have been averted if well trained medics followed closely at the heels of the alfas to administer the antidote quickly if not to all the hostages, to the most vulnerable, the elderly and the children. The time it took to bring the unconscious hostages outside and into the ambulances would have been too long to prevent brain damage.
Why did the authorities not reveal what the drug was? I can hazard 2 reasons.
1. The medics didn't need to know what the drug was in order to treat the patients. All they needed to do was to maintain oxygenation, the very first step in rescusitation. Supplemental oxygen, a breathing bag, and a mask might have been enough. Those who were already brain damaged would not have benefitted from the antidote anyway.
2. The authorities didn't reveal the drug used because now that the secret is out, future hostage takers can very easily take precautions. You don't need a gas mask to stop fentanyl, a pill containing amphetamines, or a shot of narcan would do the trick. Both are easy to procure.
What they got wrong was that they seriously underestimated the need for medical support for this operation. They'd have needed a antidote, oxygen, suction tubes, and a set of bags and masks for EACH of the hostages, not to mention around 2 medics per hostage. Had they gotten the medical part of the operation right, I'm convinced the casualties would have been much, much lower.
Malaysian SOF is a bit shy of publicity.
This a story of an ex-para military SOF (VAT 69 is under the police not the army)
This is an example of the mission, a press report from International Herald Tribune, July 7, 2000.
For me, they all at par in term of capability and experinece with other SOF in the rest of the world.
But our Jungle Warfare school is considered among the best in the world. Military success? Maybe I can safely said that Malaysian army, is the only army who force the communist to surrender (PKM, PKKU and several more insurgents movement).
To end the war is not by merely winning the battle, but win their mind and heart.:malaysia
This a story of an ex-para military SOF (VAT 69 is under the police not the army)
This is an example of the mission, a press report from International Herald Tribune, July 7, 2000.
For me, they all at par in term of capability and experinece with other SOF in the rest of the world.
But our Jungle Warfare school is considered among the best in the world. Military success? Maybe I can safely said that Malaysian army, is the only army who force the communist to surrender (PKM, PKKU and several more insurgents movement).
To end the war is not by merely winning the battle, but win their mind and heart.:malaysia
CSS said:
If you're talking about the Malay Insurgency, then the concept of "Hearts and Minds" was actually a British innovation.
I'm not so sure about the rate of success in dealing with the communists though. As late as 1985 I was getting shot at by communists in and around Mersing and throughout various parts of Johore. I was unable to safely move after certain times at night.
eg, in 1985 the Chinese New Year festivities required the local special forces commander to organise a temporary truce so that there would be no confusion between the fireworks and any actual attacks. Parts of Johore were on curfew after 22:00 so as to protect locals from being shot at. I remember getting shot at the day after Chinese New Year.
I was not a happy man.
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gf0012-aust said:If you're talking about the Malay Insurgency, then the concept of "Hearts and Minds" was actually a British innovation.
I'm not so sure about the rate of success in dealing with the communists though. As late as 1985 I was getting shot at by communists in and around Mersing and throughout various parts of Johore. I was unable to safely move after certain times at night.
eg, in 1985 the Chinese New Year festivities required the local special forces commander to organise a temporary truce so that there would be no confusion between the fireworks and any actual attacks. Parts of Johore were on curfew after 22:00 so as to protect locals from being shot at. I remember getting shot at the day after Chinese New Year.
I was not a happy man.
It could be their way of welcoming you to CNY. Are you certain its not an unclassified type of extremely large firecracker? :hehe
As an israeli that fimiliar with those units, and does not with other countrys SF, i can't say who is the best, but in israel there's the units that you know about them, like in the list in the first page, you got
Sayeret Matkal, Who belongs to the intelligence, her praimary job is to bring information from Beyond enemies lines, but gets the best training in all military tactics and warfare on the land, and counted as one of the best units in the IDF.
Most of the things that unit does, no one knows.
There's Sayeret Yahalom ( Daimond ) - engineering corps special unit, one of the comandos unit of the IDF, the main unit job, is to get in, and blow stuff, evreything, from Radars, to Vehicels.
None of the things that unit is doing is allowed to publish, no one knows what they do there.
Sayeret Golani, one of the exclusives unit of IDF,
50% of the teenagers ( 16-18 ) want to get into this commando unit, she is part of the Golani division, the ratio of getting into this unit is 1 - 1000.
She's the patrol unit of the borders in the negev, she is really gets the best, of the best.
And the last one, that i like the best.
Shaldag Unit.
The Israel Air Force Elite unit for special actions.
Sayeret Shaldag and Matkal pass the trial period prior to selection for elite army units together.
No one actually knows on any of her actions, but some people says that she had part of the strike on the Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981... who knows.
hope you learned something :>
Sayeret Matkal, Who belongs to the intelligence, her praimary job is to bring information from Beyond enemies lines, but gets the best training in all military tactics and warfare on the land, and counted as one of the best units in the IDF.
Most of the things that unit does, no one knows.
There's Sayeret Yahalom ( Daimond ) - engineering corps special unit, one of the comandos unit of the IDF, the main unit job, is to get in, and blow stuff, evreything, from Radars, to Vehicels.
None of the things that unit is doing is allowed to publish, no one knows what they do there.
Sayeret Golani, one of the exclusives unit of IDF,
50% of the teenagers ( 16-18 ) want to get into this commando unit, she is part of the Golani division, the ratio of getting into this unit is 1 - 1000.
She's the patrol unit of the borders in the negev, she is really gets the best, of the best.
And the last one, that i like the best.
Shaldag Unit.
The Israel Air Force Elite unit for special actions.
Sayeret Shaldag and Matkal pass the trial period prior to selection for elite army units together.
No one actually knows on any of her actions, but some people says that she had part of the strike on the Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981... who knows.
hope you learned something :>
gf0012-aust said:If you're talking about the Malay Insurgency, then the concept of "Hearts and Minds" was actually a British innovation.
I'm not so sure about the rate of success in dealing with the communists though. As late as 1985 I was getting shot at by communists in and around Mersing and throughout various parts of Johore. I was unable to safely move after certain times at night.
eg, in 1985 the Chinese New Year festivities required the local special forces commander to organise a temporary truce so that there would be no confusion between the fireworks and any actual attacks. Parts of Johore were on curfew after 22:00 so as to protect locals from being shot at. I remember getting shot at the day after Chinese New Year.
I was not a happy man.
During that time, there is no peace truce with the communist yet. I still remember during that time, there still area that what we called `black area', an area which suppose still have communist activities. As you said, curfew is one of the measure taken around the area.
The truce called `Perjanjian Haadyai' sealed in 2nd. December 1989. No more `black area', no more insurgency, now the Malaysian Army posed to be a conventional army as shown by their organisation, inventory etc. But they will retain their jungle warfare skills.
When is your last time in Malaysia? Now, you can play the biggest fireworks and nobody will panic.
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