Australia 'cracked US codes'

[battlensign]

Ahh, so ADF paid for one thing and wanted something else, didnt want to pay for the rest and got the codes anyway, by other methods?
From what you have posted it seems to me that someone in ADF didn't do proper due diligence on the very costly contract. Definitely couldn't have the public find out about that, might prove embarrassing to senior figures!

I do not think that Magoo was attempting to suggest, imply or explicitly state ANYTHING like that at all. I can see where you are coming from, but it seems(to me at the moment at least) quite clear that Magoo was trying to convey a sense of security reluctance from the US. This is NOT something that could have been rectified by negotiation earlier. Either we got the codes or we didn't (before or after). Asking before would not necessarily have been any more effective and we needed a new fighter anyway, so it isn't as though that was going to be leverage.

Brett.

 

[Magoo]

I do not think that Magoo was attempting to suggest, imply or explicitly state ANYTHING like that at all. I can see where you are coming from, but it seems(to me at the moment at least) quite clear that Magoo was trying to convey a sense of security reluctance from the US. This is NOT something that could have been rectified by negotiation earlier. Either we got the codes or we didn't (before or after). Asking before would not necessarily have been any more effective and we needed a new fighter anyway, so it isn't as though that was going to be leverage.

Brett.

Bingo!

Magoo

 

[battlensign]

Bingo!

Magoo

Glad to be of assistance. I live to serve.......:

 

[Magoo]

Glad to be of assistance. I live to serve.......:

No worries

But seriously, the thought of US aircraft radar 'codes' not being loaded into the Hornets' EW system threat library probably didn't occur to the Mirage replacement program planners in the late 70s, nor would I have expected it to. I don't think the Indons ordered the F-16 until after our first Hornets were delivered.

I don't know how true this is, but I have heard the Kiwis may have assisted with the APG-66 codes after they installed the radar into their A-4Ks in the late 80s/early 90s, although I believe they got a dumbed down and less powerful version of the radar to allow for the A-4's smaller aperture etc.

Cheers

Magoo

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Any chance of a similar prblem with the SH and JSF buy????? If malaysia get SH Block I (I doubt the yanks will do them block II's) we may have a similar problem, again with the APG 63(V3) AESA on ROSAF F15's. Or have our ELint cabailities evolved a bit since since the 70's and these sort of things wont be too much of a problem???

 

[Magoo]

Any chance of a similar prblem with the SH and JSF buy????? If malaysia get SH Block I (I doubt the yanks will do them block II's) we may have a similar problem, again with the APG 63(V3) AESA on ROSAF F15's. Or have our ELint cabailities evolved a bit since since the 70's and these sort of things wont be too much of a problem???

Who knows, although I think the relationship has matured somewhat since the heady days of the Hawke Govt, especially after the signing of the security pact by the Shrub and Howard in Sydney a couple of weeks ago which should smooth over many of the current ITARs issues the ADF and industry keeps coming up against!

I suspect we have a much greater capability to do our own ELINT work these days, via various assets such as the AP-3Cs and especially once the Wedgetails come on board, so we should be virtually self-sufficient in developing our own very comprehensive threat library going forward.

Just as an interesting side note - the Indian Su-30MKIs which went to Waddington in the UK recently were extremely restricted on how much 'radiating' they could do with their own radars. Seems the Indians didn't want to give away too much of what the Su-30's capabilities were. It'll be interesting to see how much they 'give up' at Red Flag next August!

Cheers

Magoo

 

[Scorpion82]

Edit:
I missed the second page before posting :rosie

So in the end "cracking" the codes was nothing else than an ELINT/SIGINT excersise. Anybody with the required capabilities does it. It's normal there is nothing special behind and I assume the Australians didn't sell this knowledge to anyone. Therefore I see no reason to worry about the purchase of F-35s. Of course it is a sensitive matter and it would have been better to keep it away from the public, but I don't see any problems which might evolve out of this.

jusr my 2 ct

 

[Sheqel]

I know nothing about the hardware talked about (I'm still trying to learn!) but, as was suggested earlier in the thread, this speech smacks of being politically motivated.

I'm just speculating, but the key message seems to be that the ADF needs to slap the US around the head ocassionally to get what they need. They probably asked Beazley to make the comments as he was a fairly significant figure in Australian politics, but generally the public won't really take much notice of him now. And most will put it down to him just showing off how big he used to be. His position, not his waist line, that is.

I suspect the ADF is trying to negotiate a deal with the US right at this moment but have hit a wall. This is their way of having a poke at their mates in America.

Interesting story though, cheers for that.

 

[Sheqel]

Bingo!

Taken from news.com.au:

AUSTRALIA is to join the United States in a partnership to share the latest generation military communications satellites.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said Australia would fund one satellite plus associated ground infrastructure at a cost of $927 million, while the US would fund the remaining five.

Dr Nelson said that would give the Australian Defence Force access to the world-leading communications capability provided by the new Wideband Global Satellite Communications (WGS) constellation.

"Access to the WGS constellation will build on the ADF's ability to conduct multiple and simultaneous military operations independently, or as part of a coalition force," he said in a statement.

"Secure and reliable satellite communications will be available to deployed forces, operational command and Australian headquarters."

"The WGS constellation of six satellites will provide a world-class capability in terms of global coverage, operational flexibility and bandwidth. It will support multiple simultaneous high-tempo operations and provide a high level of redundancy."

Dr Nelson said WGS also would allow the ADF to realise the full potential of Network Centric Warfare within the next decade.

It would enable the next generation of Australian military capabilities, such as air warfare destroyers, amphibious ships, multi-mission unmanned aerial vehicles and land platforms to achieve their full potential, he said.

Dr Nelson said the first WGS satellite was now being prepared for launch, and would be operational by early 2008.

The complete constellation of six satellites will be fully functional by 2013, and will comfortably handle the increase in ADF communications requirements over this time and out to at least 2024.

Each WGS satellite will provide more communications capacity than the entire US satellite communication system constellation currently in orbit, according to the WGS prime contractor, defence company Boeing.

Dr Nelson said achieving full operational WGS capability by 2013 would coincide with the predicted capability drawdown of the ADF's SingTel/Optus C1 satellite.

He said the SingTel/Optus C1 satellite would continue to be an important element of ADF communications capability until its end of life, and it would be maintained in parallel with WGS.

"I expect to finalise the arrangement through the signing of a government-to-government Memorandum of Understanding shortly after the 30 day US Congressional Notification Period," he said.

"This new partnership will further strengthen the Australia-US alliance. It will enhance the close ties and high level of cooperation that already exists between Australian and US defence force personnel."

 

[Gripenator]

"He said the SingTel/Optus C1 satellite would continue to be an important element of ADF communications capability until its end of life, and it would be maintained in parallel with WGS."

Did somebody say Singtel?

A partially Singaporean owned satellite used by the ADF?

But then again Singapore is "friendly"=)

 

[gf0012-aust]

"He said the SingTel/Optus C1 satellite would continue to be an important element of ADF communications capability until its end of life, and it would be maintained in parallel with WGS."

Did somebody say Singtel?

A partially Singaporean owned satellite used by the ADF?

But then again Singapore is "friendly"=)

there has been a problem in the past with espionage claims against singapore - that was circa 2000-2001. those days are well gone. the harvesting that goes through the singtel satellite is not that sensitive - and deliberately so. we do have access to other harvesting processes.

the whole reason for dispersing and going with the US option is that we know the calibre of data protection

 

[barra]

But then again Singapore is "friendly"=)

They may well be "friendly" but they are also very active and well known collectors of intelligence and are treated as such when deployed here. Like the F-16 det that is currently at Willytown.

Hooroo