Aurora Real or Not?

[LancerMc]

In the most recent issue of Popular Science, Aviation Author Bill Sweetman discusses the possibilities of a number of black aircraft being developed by the USAF due to budget holes. As many military aviation readers know the Aurora has been the "holy grail" of sorts in black projects. Mr. Sweetman discusses the fact a $9 billion hole was found in the most recent USAF budget. There is also reports over the past few years of mysterious sonic booms over the west coast which all branches of the military deny knowing about. Mr. Sweetman feels that some type of aircraft like Aurora is being developed or currently being tested. I know some people don't believe this, but besides being one of the worlds leading authority on aviation technology I have met and talked with him a few times and he's a honest person. So I trust his opinion more then probably any other person on these subjects.

Currently the USAF has awarded Northrop to start the design of an bomber aircraft that has almost identical capabilities of the supposed Aurora. They want it to have high cruise speed preferably Mach 3+ and quite sonic boom technology to go over land without damaging property. The mythical Aurora is supposed to have these capabilities. While its just a hypothesis, the in-service date of Northrop's new bomber, could just be date planned for the USAF to bring the "Aurora" to the public light.

Do any you have an arguments for Aurora's supposed existence? What opinions do you have about this mystical aircraft?

 

[Big-E]

I'm sure it is. It's no secret we have been testing hyper-sonic aircraft. Although I think the intended use and requirements most people speculate about have changed. We no longer need a replacement for the SR-71 but we do need a high-speed global strike bomber. We also need a replacement for the space shuttle. With the potential of scram-jet speeds it is hypothetically possible to reach escape velocity. Rocket assisted space flight would be a thing of the past... it truly is exciting technology.

 

[Wooki]

I'm sure it is. It's no secret we have been testing hyper-sonic aircraft. Although I think the intended use and requirements most people speculate about have changed. We no longer need a replacement for the SR-71 but we do need a high-speed global strike bomber. We also need a replacement for the space shuttle. With the potential of scram-jet speeds it is hypothetically possible to reach escape velocity. Rocket assisted space flight would be a thing of the past... it truly is exciting technology.

Totally agree. The pulse detonation engine is like the best potatoe gun ever built . It must be a year or 2 ago now, but DARPA are also looking seriously at plasma technologies to alter airflow characteristics into aircraft engines, which is uber cool. They would be fantastic for the B1B, as you could dump the 's' curve intakes that slow it down and really cruise when you wanted to, or go back to the LO mode for serious stuff.

cheers

W

 

[HateBreed]

actually, alliant techsystems has silently addmitted that its working on a vehicle that looks similar to the flying wedge shape that has been associated with aurora. but the thing is that they need to place a booster like assembly at the back which will accelerate the vehicle to escape speed that would take it just above the exosphere. at which point the vehicle will climb up and down this level in a pendulum like pattern in order to maintain its hypersonic speed. it will be atleast 20 years before we actually see aurora (whatever it will be called then) in some sort of use. I will add more to this post later.

 

[Big-E]

actually, alliant techsystems has silently addmitted that its working on a vehicle that looks similar to the flying wedge shape that has been associated with aurora. but the thing is that they need to place a booster like assembly at the back which will accelerate the vehicle to escape speed that would take it just above the exosphere. at which point the vehicle will climb up and down this level in a pendulum like pattern in order to maintain its hypersonic speed. it will be atleast 20 years before we actually see aurora (whatever it will be called then) in some sort of use. I will add more to this post later.

I think 20 years might be realistic for the space vehicle but the high-altitude bomber is much closer. I've seen the scram-jet engine tests, they were succesfull. Franky I'm suprised they haven't fielded the bomber at this point.

 

[Rich]

I get a laugh when the scientists involved start talking about the hypersonic commercial aircraft that will one day be able to fly from Sydney to NYNY is 2 hours. I'm sure that will one day happen but the "Hold hands at the equator and sing" spin always gives me a :lol3

Because the reality is we wouldnt be spending so much of the taxpayers $$$ to build a super fast Bus in order to fly our fat rear ends, housed in elastic waisted jeans, to Sydney in two hours. What we want is a bomber that can skip to North Korea in 1&1/2 hours with really big bombs.

And that bomber will be a reality long before the 947 Hyper Bus will. "20 years before we see it"? Thats TS talk for "the thing will be operational in 10".

 

[Big-E]

I agree, having civilian application of military tech often takes 10 years after introduction.

 

[Rich]

I agree, having civilian application of military tech often takes 10 years after introduction.

I meant if the Military says it wont fly for 20 years what they are really saying is the bomber will probably fly in 10. The program itself is a lot older then many think and can be traced to the beginnings of the Shuttle program in the 60s. In reality weve had a hypersonic airplane flying for 25 years.

The truth is I dont know whats flying around in the S/W night sky and wouldnt say so if I did.

 

[icelord]

Hope it is real, otherwise a lot of ppl have been wasting thier time.
There were several others mentioned that looked freaky/cool/sweet, but the Aurora has been referred to as the Peagsus, which may be the Northrup project your referring to. I think Pegasus was designed as a navy bomber though, but it looks a lot like the Aurora sighting aircraft.

 

[boldeagle]

Aurora: let's cut through it...

First, let me state, for the record, that I am not restricted, in this discussion, by a security clearance.

The semi-legendary / semi-mythical "Aurora" has been a "hot" topic of discussion in the aerospace field for at least the last 20 years, now, to my personal knowledge. I was working for a contractor at NASA HQ during the CHALLENGER recovery period (1986-1987), when NASA's Office of Aeronautics and Space Technology (OAST: on the 6th floor of NASA HQ) was working on the National Aerospace Plane (AKA: "Tokyo Express"), which used "red folder" DoD technology. All of a sudden, the DoD withdrew its support and the "Top Secret" technology which was the lynch pin of the hypersonic, scramjet design. No explanation was ever given for the DoD withdrawal from a project which was originally intended to produce both a hypersonic, commercial aircraft and a "second generation" Space Shuttle, but the rumors of Aurora began forthwith. Aurora has been photographed, complete with "sausage link" contrail and "explosive detonation" sound qualities. These are the characteristics of a "hypersonic scramjet unstart" condition which one gets on deceleration preparatory to landing.

Inasmuch as this was a generation ago, the military version of this technology is obviously already "out there" and the declassification of it is most likely "any day now". The previous post about the "funding hole" of $9 billion and the possibility of Northrop declassifying a previously "black" project makes a lot of sense.

 

[LancerMc]

Like in my previous post I believe the Aurora exits but I do not believe it is fully operational. Over the past decade there a number of times such an aircraft could have been used. The best example is the CIA knowing where Osama Bin Laden was a few times and not taking him out. The most logical answer was that the program was shut down after the Cold War ended, but now with the war on terrorism brewing the have started development again.

There have been credible sightings from individuals over the years of a mysterious large delta wing aircraft. The most credible sighting was by two oil workers in the early 1980's. They spotted the mysterious large delta wing being refueled by a KC-135 and flanked by 2 FB-111's.

While hypersonic aircraft will some day be flying business people and vacationers around the world, I doubt that will happen anytime soon and probably longer then 20 years. Soon after the creation of flight and space technology the military has been driving the way for major leaps in the aerospace community. If the military keeps technology like Aurora black for extremely long periods, commercial applications will be far away. I think more likely people will be hoping a commercial space shuttle to a hotel in space long before hypersonic flights from NYC to Tokyo happen.

 

[Rich]

Part of the answer here lies in the past, and in the evolution of other "Black Project" airplanes. The U2 and X-craft of the 50s, SR-71 in the 60s, stealth airplanes of the 80s, and as already mentioned we can throw in the shuttle as another test vehicle for what will eventually be a hypersonic bomber. Whatever the final name for this weapon will be it will be the child of myriad other projects and the product of technologies and systems weve been working with for a long, long time.

My point being Aurora will not be so much a "revolution" as an "evolution". Which leads me to believe, especially when looking at the negative forecasts of our manned bomber attrition in the next decade or two, that this hypersonic bomber will be here sooner instead of later.

In other words, we aren't re-opening the B-2 assembly line, the B1b's lifespan is etched in stone, and we sure as heck aren't going to fly bombers from the 50's forever, so whats the plan? I have a gut feeling the "plan" is a black project hypersonic bomber flying within 10 years. With operational wings in 15 to 20.

Thats just "gut" feeling. The cannibalism of our B1b's is what makes me most suspicious. USAF just doesn't do that without having a safety net in the near future.

 

[LancerMc]

The B-1B is not a unreliable as many people think it is. I spent time Ellsworth and had a chance to talk to a lot people who help maintain the aircraft. It is true when the aircraft entered service it did have a lot problems, the reason for maintenance problems is the lack of a steady flow of spare parts. The aircraft now have the normal wear and tear problems. The problem was and is when President Reagan ordered the B-1B he didn't order any extra parts. So the fleet has been strapped for parts for its entire existence. Many of the new parts have to be made from scratch thus each squadron normally has a "parts" aircraft to give up parts when the new ones are not available. These "parts" aircraft are on a rotation of about a month, then replaced by another aircraft.

One reason the B-52 has been able to keep flying so long is the huge inventory of parts from AMARC. That was the plan for the B-1B fleet, but after Afghanistan the USAF realized the B-52 and B-2 were to slow to be an effective time on target aircraft and thats why there are a few more B-1B's in service today.

I think that a 10 to 15 years gap in a new "black" bomber is probably a little long since, more then likely the USAF is already testing some type of aircraft.
The F-117's at Holloman were able to hide for years from the public, so I think a small fleet of "Aurora" like bombers could probably do so even better.

 

[ugunnadiepiggy]

Like in my previous post I believe the Aurora exits but I do not believe it is fully operational. Over the past decade there a number of times such an aircraft could have been used. The best example is the CIA knowing where Osama Bin Laden was a few times and not taking him out. The most logical answer was that the program was shut down after the Cold War ended, but now with the war on terrorism brewing the have started development again.

There have been credible sightings from individuals over the years of a mysterious large delta wing aircraft. The most credible sighting was by two oil workers in the early 1980's. They spotted the mysterious large delta wing being refueled by a KC-135 and flanked by 2 FB-111's.

While hypersonic aircraft will some day be flying business people and vacationers around the world, I doubt that will happen anytime soon and probably longer then 20 years. Soon after the creation of flight and space technology the military has been driving the way for major leaps in the aerospace community. If the military keeps technology like Aurora black for extremely long periods, commercial applications will be far away. I think more likely people will be hoping a commercial space shuttle to a hotel in space long before hypersonic flights from NYC to Tokyo happen.

the vb-70 is the designation of the aircraft that may fit such a sighting in the 80s.and may be the base for such an idea if you include the latest tech.

 

[LancerMc]

First of all the XB-70 was never a hypersonic aircraft. The XB-70 was designed only to have a maximum speed for Mach 3.3.

Second the last prototype was donated to NASA for aeronautical research. As far as I know it was never really used again, and was finally moved to the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson A.F.B.

While the triangular wings share similarities between the two aircraft, the Aurora has be described as a completely triangular aircraft. If an XB-70 was painted black; like the sightings of the Aurora, you could easily see the cockpit and fuselage areas forward of the wings. Also since the XB-70 was public aircraft during that period, I doubt there would have been any confusion between the two. In reality the XB-70 would make a good cover story, but the Air Force has never used that idea.

 

[ugunnadiepiggy]

First of all the XB-70 was never a hypersonic aircraft. The XB-70 was designed only to have a maximum speed for Mach 3.3.

Second the last prototype was donated to NASA for aeronautical research. As far as I know it was never really used again, and was finally moved to the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson A.F.B.

While the triangular wings share similarities between the two aircraft, the Aurora has be described as a completely triangular aircraft. If an XB-70 was painted black; like the sightings of the Aurora, you could easily see the cockpit and fuselage areas forward of the wings. Also since the XB-70 was public aircraft during that period, I doubt there would have been any confusion between the two. In reality the XB-70 would make a good cover story, but the Air Force has never used that idea.

you're trying to tell me that a bunch of crack pots sitting in the desert sun for hour's talking bout black projects and UFO's CAN properly identify a aircraft travelling at 220 knots in the dark on apprach for landing in a secured area........I am quite sure that the degree of error would be like a chinese whisper. The basic shape of XB-70(thank you for the correction) was far advanced for it's time, in theory if you applied current knowledge of hyper sonic theory to the craft you would have an aircraft with extremely large conventional engines capable of near hyper sonic speeds and at such high speeds stealth has very little use.
Hyper sonic scram jet engines have not been completely reliable for military use. So in summary this is merely a thread about the possibility that if error is accounted for in the sightings, a current design or modification of a design is used, current theory and practice is applied and conventional engines used due to time restrictions on aircraft readiness and application date. this could be the aircraft.... That's my theory I don't have a problem that i could be incorrect just like everyone else.....greetings from Mar's HAHA :O

 

[LancerMc]

The most creditable sighting the "Aurora" comes from two oil workers working the Pacific Ocean during the 1980's. The witnesses saw large black triangular aircraft being refueled by a KC-135. The black aircraft was flanked by a pair of FB-111's. I am sure if the witnesses could identify the other aircraft, and if it was an XB-70 they would have said so.

Some of the UFO guys are pretty hilarious, because they still show pictures of small black flying triangles saying their UFO's, but in reality they are F-117's. The sighting from UFO's enthusiasts are not valid because they see what they want to see. That’s why the report above is more creditable because they individuals weren't out looking for anything; they just saw it & reported it.

True as far the public is concerned much of hypersonic technology has not been all that successful, but that’s from the public domain. Could the USAF have such technology? I think so, so do a lot of others. 30 years ago a lot of people said you couldn't hide aircraft from radar, but Lockheed Martin & Northrop proved them wrong. Though in reality a Russian scientist decades before came up with the theory to make radar invisible aircraft. The technology has been there, it is all in the matter of who trying to use it.

 

[Izzy1]

For a rather dubious picture of the above sighting...

http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm

See about three-quarters down the page.

 

[LancerMc]

Thanks for that post its got a lot of information.

That picture is a recreation of the incident in which the two people sighted the Aurora. The witnesses described what they saw, and some individuals made the fake picture to give people and idea of the aircrafts scope and size.

 

[Rich]

Funny how the Air Force and defense establishment never mad a whimper when the SR-71 was retired. When in its history did it ever retire such an important system without even making a fuss?

Whats that tell you?