Afghanistan War

STURM

Well-Known Member
The U S. has finally come around to acknowledging that civilians, including children, were killed as part of the attack on ISK and that it was "unlikely" they had any connection to ISK. Compensation is being considered as it should be but it will be no consolation for the relatives, especially those of the children who were so tragically and needlessly killed.

Whether anyone will actually be held accountable accountable remains to be seen but this is merely another instance of ordinary Afghans being at the wrong place and the wrong time and paying the ultimate price.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The Pakistan government has finally publicly admitted that it has funded and trained the Taliban. Separately the ISI Head has turned up in Kabaul wanting some return on the investment of the decades. He may be lucky.

 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The Pakistan government has finally publicly admitted that it has funded and trained the Taliban. Separately the ISI Head has turned up in Kabaul wanting some return on the investment of the decades. He may be lucky.

A drone strike should be in his future.
 

Terran

Active Member
A drone strike should be in his future.
The U S. has finally come around to acknowledging that civilians, including children, were killed as part of the attack on ISK and that it was "unlikely" they had any connection to ISK. Compensation is being considered as it should be but it will be no consolation for the relatives, especially those of the children who were so tragically and needlessly killed.

Whether anyone will actually be held accountable accountable remains to be seen but this is merely another instance of ordinary Afghans being at the wrong place and the wrong time and paying the ultimate price.
Which is part of the problem that will progress. Not saying that this guy isn’t worth a Hellfire Ginsu. He won’t get one thought Pakistan is to important to piss off if, The Swamp intends to keep up some semblance of counter terror in Afghanistan. However the so called “Strategy” of Over the horizon strike is a farce. I mean it was a mess with boots on the ground feeding data to try and insure that missiles actually landed on what they were supposed to be killing as opposed to civilians.
We have just returned to the pre 9/11 stratagem of sending cruise missiles and drones to retaliate. If you (like me) are old enough to recall in those days when the US got Intel on characters like OBL we often ended up launching Tomahawks at empty tents or civilians because Intel said target X was at site Y but by the time the missiles arrived target X had moved on to play with his mistress or had finished his meal and was on his way to his next palace. This is why Afghanistan was invaded on 9/12. Because when you have a regime like the Taliban they create cover for actions. It allows for groups like IS or AQ to train, plan and stage operations well limiting counter response.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
A drone strike should be in his future.
I certainly hope not. The US should not make a habit of killing officials of foreign governments because it doesn't like their behavior. It sets a dangerous precedent and undermines the entire international structure within which these nation-states operate. It also doesn't solve anything. The time to address Pakistani support of the Taliban was anywhere over the past twenty years. Not immediately after the US has withdrawn.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 2: Does the Afghan civil war continue after the American surrender? Or is there a pause button?

1. Glad to see that the Pentagon has admitted its mistake in a U.S. strike in Kabul, Afghanistan last month that killed 10 civilians (including up to 7 children). "As the combatant commander, I am fully responsible for this strike and its tragic outcome," U.S. Marine Corps Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, commander of U.S. Central Command, told reporters.
(a) US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has ordered a senior-level review of the investigation that found that civilians were killed in an 29 Aug 2021 strike in Kabul that the Pentagon initially said had killed an Islamic State fighter. The reviewer is to consider whether any military disciplinary action is warranted.​
(b) Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said on Monday that Austin told the Air Force to appoint an officer at three- or four-star rank to review the Central Command investigation, which examined in detail the chronology of events leading to the tragedy.​

I certainly hope not. The US should not make a habit of killing officials of foreign governments because it doesn't like their behavior. It sets a dangerous precedent and undermines the entire international structure within which these nation-states operate. It also doesn't solve anything. The time to address Pakistani support of the Taliban was anywhere over the past twenty years. Not immediately after the US has withdrawn.
2. Agreed, there are other tools of American state craft besides murder. I think the State Department has enough to do for the time being.

3. In other news, I note that Islamic State Khorasan Province (ISK) has claimed responsibility for a series of bomb attacks in the city of Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan, the group's Amaaq News Agency said on its Telegram channel. Amaaq News Agency said that “three separate bomb attacks" targeting three "Taliban vehicles" in Jalalabad on Saturday, and another "bomb attack" Sunday on "a Taliban vehicle". Is there a pause button, to the 43 year civil war?

4. ISK has attracted many foreign fighters over the years, including from countries like Syria, Pakistan, and even India; and these foreign fighters are the ones who could pose a threat to U.S. interests outside of Afghanistan.

5. The Taliban were forced to arrest the border security guards who disrespected Pakistan's flag at Torkham crossing with Afghanistan. A member of Taliban cultural commission denounced the incident as "regrettable."
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
including from countries like Syria, Pakistan, and even India; and these foreign fighters are the ones who could pose a threat to U.S. interests outside of Afghanistan.
They will pose a threat to anyone deemed by them to be enemies of their cause, unfortunately it will be ordinary civilians who often than not, will be the victims.

The good news IS's influence and an appeal has waned, scores of volunteers are not rushing to join its ranks.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Taliban (in)competence at work in Sep 2021

1. Afghanistan’s healthcare system was plunged into crisis after the Taliban swept into power last month. International donors, including the World Bank and European Union, have frozen funding to Afghanistan. Nine of Afghanistan's 37 COVID-19 hospitals have closed and "all aspects" of the country's pandemic response have declined, including testing and vaccination, per a statement from WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus following his visit to the capital, Kabul.
  • "Many of these facilities have now reduced operations or shut down, forcing health providers to make hard decisions on who to save and who to let die," the statement notes. "Only 17% of all Sehatmandi health facilities are now fully functional."
  • Measles outbreaks are spreading and the country's polio eradication efforts are at risk due to the funding cuts.
  • Afghanistan "faces an imminent humanitarian catastrophe," Tedros warns
2. Martin Griffiths, the UN’s under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs and emergency relief coordinator, said in a statement on 22 Sep 2021 (Wed) that he was releasing US$45m in funds from the UN’s Central Emergency Response Fund to boost life-saving support in Afghanistan.

3. Naseeb Zadran has been appointed CEO of the Afghan Cricket Board by the Taliban and for good measure they banned watching and screening of the Indian cricket league in Afghanistan. In more good news, they also introduced a new sports uniform for Afghan athletes — a white t-shirt with the Taliban flag printed on it. I am not sure how this will help solve hunger.

4. Not sure what to make of this news of ‘Filtering Out Their Military Lines’ but it does show that for the Taliban, fighting the US supported Afghan government is more fun than ruling the country.
(a) I don’t think the Taliban can control their fighters and if they do really try, it will splinter them into factions. According to the Taliban, they have torched many houses belongs to ISK in Kunar province, but are they just burning random houses?​
(b) The Taliban say that these ISK houses are already vacated and ISK are on the run. In theory, the Taliban have also agreed to the removal of the Taliban Kunar governor, Haji Usman Turabi, except he still has the guns, goons and governor’s office in his possession.​
(c) Maulana Muhammad Qasim has been appointed Governor of Kunar, except I don’t know how he will take over power.​

5. “By the end of September, the stocks which the World Food Program has in the country will be out,” Alakbarov told reporters at a virtual news conference. “We will not be able to provide those essential food items because we’ll be out of stocks.” The World Food Programme (WFP) estimates 93% of Afghans are not getting enough food to eat. Before the Taliban seized control last month the number was 80%. The hunger games have just begun for Afghanistan.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member


| ""Niemand gaat ons vertellen hoe onze wetten moeten zijn. Wij zullen de islam volgen en onze eigen wetten maken, gebaseerd op de Koran". |

They said they have changed, being now moderate and only wanting peace, stability and prosperity for the people.

But this senior Taliban-member, Mullah Turabi, just tell in fact that they want to restart their way of interpretation of the Koran while damaging even more the image of the islam by terrorising the people.
 

Terran

Active Member
Well like I said IS or the Taliban same end goal who differ mostly in timeline. Those whom believe in a “Kinder Gentler” Taliban have sold themselves the Brooklyn bridge.
This said if We are to be serious about this we should remember that hanging people with cranes is widely practiced in the Islamic republic of Iran.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Gee, who would have thought??? Need to rewrite the lyrics to “Send in the Clowns”, I would suggest send in the drones!

Well it may stop criminal gangs kidnapping people. That's the one thing that the public liked about the Taliban; they gave out justice where as the previous government didn't. Yes it's barbaric in some eyes but so is the death penalty, or life imprisonment, or the punishment not fitting the crime.

A common debate here is that the criminal has all the rights and privileges under the law and the victim next to none. So who's right and who's wrong? There are some crimes committed here where I reckon that the crim should have a warning shot between the eyeballs and we'll worry about the fair trial afterwards. Whilst that may satisfy the angry visceral blood lust and need for vengeance, because of a particularly nasty, vicious, and heinous crime, it isn't proper and fair justice.

Just because we don't agree with it doesn't necessarily make it right for us to take the law into our own hands.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member

A very intreresting piece by a photojournalist who made many trips to the country. He mentions various pertinent points which are often ovelooked by outsiders.

"Meanwhile, the Afghans like these villagers and the Taliban fighters were often described as “stupid” by the Western soldiers, mistaking their lack of education for a lack of intellect. This endless underestimating of the abilities of Afghan partners and the Taliban was, I believe, a large factor in the ultimate outcome."

"It did not matter to regular Afghans whether the casualties were caused by coalition military blunders or Taliban “human shield” tactics; all they saw was a rising body count of their family, friends and neighbours"
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Those whom believe in a “Kinder Gentler” Taliban have sold themselves the Brooklyn bridge.
Well then I've sold myself.

The plain fact is that the Taliban has undergone some changes compared to what it was in the past. There is a rift within its leadership, some wanting to stay the course and others wanting to reinvent the organisation to appear more palatable to the public and the outside world. Note that even if the Taliban was indeed intent on changing it will be a gradual process which can't and will not occur overnight - even goverments with years of democratic traditions and the needed check and balances take time to fully implement deep change. Also note that extreme measures undertaken by the Taliban have the support - rightly or wrongly - of a large part of the Afghan rural population as a means of maintaning law and order.

I have absolutely no idea about Iran but I do know that in Saudi Arabia, a U.S. strategic partner and ally, public beheadings still take place and until recently women were not allowed to drive. There are also restrictions on women being able to work and other things - unlike in Iran.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Well like I said IS or the Taliban same end goal who differ mostly in timeline.
They hade the same objective as in the Taliban wanted to be in power again and Pakistan wanted that too.

The endgame is slightly diffrent however. Pakistan desires a friendly compliant Taliban [which it has failed to achieve] for strategic depth against India, to help manage its own sizeable Pashtun population [larger than Aghanistan's] and for economic reasons [the land route for trade to Central Asia], as well as a oil potential pipeline. Note that Pakistan still has a lot to be worried about. Just because the Taliban has regained power doesn't necessarily mean Pakistan can sit back and be contend.

Even with support provided by Pakistan, the Taliban would not have come to power in 1996 had it not been for large amounts of aid from Saudi and other sources.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
For the record the last beheading was January 2016. The last stoning was in the 1990s. I don’t condone any of it yet to claim it as Reform? Public lashes are back, amputation. They have dragged it back to the puritanical regime they had in te 1990s. What reform is there? They restored the same situation.
Their country, their rules.

Do you have evidence to support your claims WRT the beheadings?

I take it it is Saudi Arabia that you are talking about. If that is the case I am sure that there have been public executions since because there have been videos of them floating around the net.

Secondly, WRT a puritanical regime, I don't like what the Taliban are doing WRT human rights but they aren't the only religious extremists trying to force their views on a country. Isn't that what a significant portion of the fundamentalist Christians in the US want? They sure seem to go out of their way to try and achieve it. To me they are just the same as the Taliban, Daesh, or Al Quaeda; they are very intolerant of anyone who doesn't adhere to their narrow minded, twisted, religious beliefs and views.
 
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