"Across the Beach"- AAVs for the Australian Army ?
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No plans whatsoever, its the LCM-1E's for us for the Canberra's and Choules etc
LCM-1E - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No spare units really available either, the USMC is holding onto every one they have with the cancellation of the EFV programe and still waiting on the outcome of the follow on ACV (Amphibious Combat Vehicle) other country's also have AAV's but they are in the same boat.
No mention has been made on any interest in the ACV, never know what the future holds ? but also pretty unlikely as they don't really fit into the intended operations we will be using, helo's will be the preffered method for quick insertion ashore
Cheers
There was a lot of discussion on the subjct in the 2 threads below
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/royal-australian-navy-discussions-updates-5905/
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/n...marine-corps-amphibious-ops-discussion-10840/
That means that we will have to rely on CAS from RAAF from over the horizon with all the problems that that brings. With the Brits going back to the F35B for the Fleet Air Arm a lower cost per unit might be in the offing. Anyhow, surely with the commonality of the RAAF version we could purchase some for RAN organic CAS.
CAS will be supplied by the Army's ARH Tiger's flying from the ships, anything else required will be supplied by the RAAF if needed, if it is outside the capabilities/reach of the RAAF, that will probably mean that we would be operating in a multi nation force. IE: US or UK etc
This subject is also heavily covered in the threads I mentioned before, and I will also point you to another. Welcome to the site, but try using the search functions on the listed threads to find what you are after, we litterally have these same questions every single week, we are not trying to put you off or dismiss you, its just that it gets very tired week after week. Check out the threads and then post any questions for anything you dont understand on the thread. Everyone on here would be happy to answer your questions, just do the research and reading first
Cheers
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/hypothetical-carrier-buy-ran-10410/
It is a closed thread for the above reasons, but a good read with a wealth of information
SteelTiger 177
New Member
I think the Austrailians need to look at reestablishing a fixed-winged fighter force within the RAN because there may be a scenario were the RAAF may not be able to provide support to the Austrailian Army .This would mean the developement of a medium sized carrier similar to the QE carriers being built in the UK.Also as far as IFVS i'm not sure what the Austrailian have that carries their infantry in support of their armored forces but if the Aussies are enhancing their amphibous force than they would need a vehicle that would capable of bring the infantry as hore along with the LCUs but also be capable of working with the M1s the only vehicle in this area was the former EFV or the AFV under development.Also has any thought in Canberra been given to acquiring aircushioned land ing craft as a replacement for there LCUs and LCMs?
You should've read the whole thread, someone commented that the Aussies should get some F35B's and Bonza directed them to look at the RAN thread for a discussion about why it wouldn't be good.
So perhaps you should trawl through that thread for the dicussion.
Little side point - at 65,000tand 280m long, the Queen Elizabeth class are a tad bigger than "medium" sized.
EDIT: To be honest, i've just read it all in more detail and there's buckets of info about the Aussies & the F35B, all the answers are there.
So perhaps you should trawl through that thread for the dicussion.
Little side point - at 65,000tand 280m long, the Queen Elizabeth class are a tad bigger than "medium" sized.
EDIT: To be honest, i've just read it all in more detail and there's buckets of info about the Aussies & the F35B, all the answers are there.
the road runner
Active Member
I think it has been mentioned before , 24 odd AAV's would be a great purchase for the ADF to operate from the LHD's. Land 400 will dictate what IFV the ADF chooses.
BAE just finished upgrading a number of M113 vehicles for the ADF to keep them going for another 10-15 years. Lav-25 have been upgraded to.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTmgk1w9Pw"]Final M113 vehicle rolls off the line at Bandiana - YouTube[/nomedia]
As for an Aircraft carrier for the ADF i thing the consensus from the def pros is that the money could be better spent on other capabilities.
BAE just finished upgrading a number of M113 vehicles for the ADF to keep them going for another 10-15 years. Lav-25 have been upgraded to.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTmgk1w9Pw"]Final M113 vehicle rolls off the line at Bandiana - YouTube[/nomedia]
As for an Aircraft carrier for the ADF i thing the consensus from the def pros is that the money could be better spent on other capabilities.
except that this was a spectacular waste of money and effort that could have been directed elsewhere
the road runner
Active Member
If i recall right we spent $600 million odd ,on designing the turret over 20 years.
Then another $1 billion to upgrade the M113 to A3/4 standard.We seemed to have just polished a turd.
We then upgraded our LAV-25 with belly plates for mine protection,and lost the swimming capability of the vehicles.
Should we have just purchased CV-90/ASCOD/Puma type vehicle?
And how important is the swimming capability for the ADF?
Cheers.
t68
Well-Known Member
According to this report those figures you presented are not far off the mark, I can understand reusing some of the hulls in a support role such as ambo, motor carrier, ALV etc but close to a billion dollars. It's certantly a lot of money spent which is effectively a bridgeing capability till the mid 2020's
http://www.anao.gov.au/~/media/Uplo... Audit Report 34/201112 Audit Report No34.pdf
The write ups on the Bionix AFV in 98 listed the at 3.6 million per unit that's not with any spare and so fourth, but for about 1.5 billion we could have had a modern AFV for not much more,in the report above their ate some damming points raised but I will have look at it closer to really digest the information.
Bionix IFV - type 25 and type 40/50 introduction page 2
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Is it that hard to read a one page thread before you post? If you want to read about fixed wing aircraft in the RAN, please do a search of the forums and read any of the several threads on the topic that have existed over the years.
If you want to post about it, do it elsewhere, as we're all sick of hearing about it.
Seems like a waste.
But I don't know if its all about deployment from the LHD's, but from other platforms like Choules or perhaps the even OCV's. Where you don't want to waste space carrying the transport for what your carrying.
M113 should be sold off to collectors or scrapped. Are we really taking lunch boxes into anything other than training exercises?
and IMHO yet another example of how the Defence industry in this country suck in (Blackmail) Government into supporting local industry and jobs on a hollow wasted project, stupid thing is for the same money we would/could have had a much better capability, and the industry would still be making money from contracts
Not really fair, the government writes / approves the requirements remember. Industry would likely have preferred building new vehicles or at least modifying newer more capable ones, i.e. Marders, Bradleys or Warriors.
Actually does anyone have any specs, drawings, or models of the cancelled project Whaler?
Back onto the amphibious ops, I have always been a fan of the Viking as used by the Royal Marines, the Warthog looks pretty good too. A production run of a couple of hundred for the Australian army would be good, although very unlikely.
didn't Abe do a little missive on Whaler some time back?
I don't know, had a look but couldn't find anything. Probably should move this to the aust army thread anyway
With M113 still around, how about spending some more ... on getting some Arisgator kits ;-)
ARIS | Defence |ARISGATOR
http://www.aris-spa.it/pdf/Arisgator.pdf
http://www.arisspa.it/inglese/arisgator.htm
http://www.arisspa.it/inglese/pdf/ARISGINGL.pdf
pic http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/TACVCzan8hI/AAAAAAAAF5s/jYa57iJbPnQ/s400/Arisgator.bmp
Australia's M113s have already been signficantly modified, including the addition of a turret.
This means the AS4 is quite a lot heavier than a standard M113 (18 tons) and not amphibious.