6th Generation Fighters Projects

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
If i'm not wrong there isn't a thread yet for new and future 5,5th and 6th generation fighterjet programs, so lets start one.

The sixth-generation jet — planned by the U.K., Sweden and Italy and set to enter service after 2030 — will bristle with new technology, from its weaponry and propulsion to a virtual cockpit projected inside the pilot’s helmet.

But the group set the bar high in October by announcing the fighter’s radar would process a quantity of data equivalent to nine hours of high-definition video — or the internet traffic of a medium-sized city — every second.
Thats quite extreme....and maybe one of the differences between 5th and 6th generation jetfighters, even more datatransfer and situational awareness.

 

Ahmad

Active Member
I would say Tempest and Japanese FX Stealth fighter should still be regarded as 5 generation fighter. There is no different with other 5 generation fighter in term of engine and shape, if there is any different it is only in avionics and 5 generation fighter will also undergo upgrade over time with their avionics and also engine.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I would say Tempest and Japanese FX Stealth fighter should still be regarded as 5 generation fighter. There is no different with other 5 generation fighter in term of engine and shape, if there is any different it is only in avionics and 5 generation fighter will also undergo upgrade over time with their avionics and also engine.
On what basis do you claim that? How do you know what the requirements are for the aircraft?
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
An interesting article.
Good news for all (future) fighterpilots: from the tactical combat aircraft projects under development worldwide, all are designed around a cockpit.

 

Ahmad

Active Member
An interesting article.
Good news for all (future) fighterpilots: from the tactical combat aircraft projects under development worldwide, all are designed around a cockpit.

Can you post the main reason here ? I and, I believe, many members here cannot access the article.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
I am still trying to get my head around what constitutes a 6th gen fighter. if you google the term what you seem to come up with is a wish list of characteristics which may or may not be achievable. When you look at real world technologies currently under development it only serves to confuse the matter even more. Take the Loyal Wingman/Skyborg concept for example. Cheap, expendable, drones that can be optionally controlled at a distance by a manned aircraft or have the ability to operate independently. This is the sort of disruptive technology that could derail a lot of what might be planned for 6th generation aircraft.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I guess a 6th Gen needs to offer a significant advance over what is now the F-35. It leaped over 4th Gen with stealth and its huge sensor/situation/networking capabilities. That is a pretty high bar. Possible advances could include a significant new engine with high output for lasers along with better range, increased protection for survival, AI assistance, and unmanned operations with air combat capability....and a real game changer, affordable and easy to maintain. Maybe the last is a 7 Gen feature! Just my two cents.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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  • #11
I am still trying to get my head around what constitutes a 6th gen fighter. if you google the term what you seem to come up with is a wish list of characteristics which may or may not be achievable. When you look at real world technologies currently under development it only serves to confuse the matter even more. Take the Loyal Wingman/Skyborg concept for example. Cheap, expendable, drones that can be optionally controlled at a distance by a manned aircraft or have the ability to operate independently. This is the sort of disruptive technology that could derail a lot of what might be planned for 6th generation aircraft.
Well, you are right. I mean when is an aircraft 4th, 4+, 4++ and 4,5th generation? Does a 5,5th, 5+ or 5- generation jetfighter exist? Who decides and who makes the rules?
Jetfighter manufacturer A can claim that only his product is a 5th or 6th gen while telling that the product of B or C are from a lower generation, using classification rules that are created by his country or the manufacturer self.

We can also say that the only 6th generation fighterjet at the moment is the amazingly advanced state-of-the-art F-313 / Qaher 313.
- Its super stealthy
- Super light
- Has STOL-capabilities
- Has an awesome futuristic design.
- Very small compact engines
- A small nose which proofs it has a tiny nanotechnology radar.

The F-313 is so hightech that the pilots need to be genetically modified to get shorter legs in order to fit in the cockpit. The only problem is, is that it can not fly, but thats not important.

Proofs of the Qaher's superiority:
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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  • #12
Alright, now back to the real world....
Europe has a history of many successful joint-development jetfighter programs, but things like IP-rights are still causing headaches and many hours of negotiations.

 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
but things like IP-rights are still causing headaches and many hours of negotiations.
Well it's has to be. German, French and Spain aim to have equal partnership. Thus they have to sort out IP ownership from this stage.

It must be possible to hand intellectual property rights from branch of industry to another so that it’s possible for all partners to make their own developments in the future,” Gerhartz added.
Just like in the article, means all Technology has to be open and accessible for all partners. Thus there're no Senior and Junior Partner status, all three are equal.

This's has to be sort out from beginning, so there're no changing interpretation later on on the obligation, whether work share, Financial and technology involvement.
 

pkcasimir

Member
I am still trying to get my head around what constitutes a 6th gen fighter. if you google the term what you seem to come up with is a wish list of characteristics which may or may not be achievable. When you look at real world technologies currently under development it only serves to confuse the matter even more. Take the Loyal Wingman/Skyborg concept for example. Cheap, expendable, drones that can be optionally controlled at a distance by a manned aircraft or have the ability to operate independently. This is the sort of disruptive technology that could derail a lot of what might be planned for 6th generation aircraft.
The US Air Force presumably knows what it wants in a sixth generation fighter since it has stated that it has flown a sixth generation flight demonstration model. But I suspect that it will be some time, probably years, before the USAF reveals the characteristics of this airplane. Due to the massive theft of advanced technology by Communist China, more and more US programs are going into the "black" or classified world. We do know from budget documents that the USAF has funded two separate engine development programs with GE and Pratt&Whitney for its sixth generation fighter.
I don't think the Loyal Wingman/Skyborg programs should be thought of as anything remotely to do with sixth generation programs. These are strictly fifth generation programs.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The US Air Force presumably knows what it wants in a sixth generation fighter since it has stated that it has flown a sixth generation flight demonstration model. But I suspect that it will be some time, probably years, before the USAF reveals the characteristics of this airplane. Due to the massive theft of advanced technology by Communist China, more and more US programs are going into the "black" or classified world. We do know from budget documents that the USAF has funded two separate engine development programs with GE and Pratt&Whitney for its sixth generation fighter.
I don't think the Loyal Wingman/Skyborg programs should be thought of as anything remotely to do with sixth generation programs. These are strictly fifth generation programs.
I think that you will find that the aircraft that you are talking about is a proof of concept for the Century Series of aircraft. The more interesting thing about this concept platform is how it is designed, built and maintained. It is fully designed, built, and tested digitally before a physical version is built. That way only one prototype is required to be built for certification. This is the digital twin method and allows for incremental iterative improvements to the design, which can be tested before before applied to the physical platform. The aircraft are designed with a service life of ~20 years with no MLU and a significant reduction in maintenance costs. The intention is to reduce the LCC significantly for the user.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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  • #16
|"Airbus and Dassault are the two main contractors for the program, with work shares to be equally divided between partner nations France, Germany and Spain. The participants had envisioned kicking off the next project stage, dubbed Phase 1B, by this summer. But new disagreements over governance procedures and the sharing of industry secrets have put the program’s future in question."|

Its quite a mess. But this is the moment to take the decision: continue together or split up in separated projects.

 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
|"Airbus and Dassault are the two main contractors for the program, with work shares to be equally divided between partner nations France, Germany and Spain. The participants had envisioned kicking off the next project stage, dubbed Phase 1B, by this summer. But new disagreements over governance procedures and the sharing of industry secrets have put the program’s future in question."|

Its quite a mess. But this is the moment to take the decision: continue together or split up in separated projects.
Yep, but it's going to go the way of most other European joint defence projects involving the French. They want it their way or they won't play and they can get quite stubborn about it too.
 

Terran

Active Member
Well remember CATBAR fighters can still be operated off a conventional runway. The main question would be if France could convince the rest of the partners to pay the extra cost of a naval fighter without operating carriers of their own capable of using them.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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  • #20
Partner nations France, Germany and Spain issued a joint communique on 17 May in which they announced that Phase 1B and Phase 2 of the project had commenced. Phase 1B aims to develop a flying demonstrator of the New Generation Fighter (NGF) element of FCAS/SCAF, with Phase 2 being the actual manufacture of the demonstrator in time for its 2027 first flight.

So there is still some progress in this project. For now.
 
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