Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Quoted posts start from here.
Started a new thread to avoid hijacking the RAN thread.
With respect to the countermeasures discussion, my question about the realistic impact of an anti-torpedoe countermeasure was more about how often a heavyweight torpedoe is/would be fired against a surface vessel, and have the torpedoe be forced to rely upon its own onboard guidance package.
With many of the AShM's available out there, the expectation is that the missiles would be fired against OTH targets, beyond the detection and guidance capabilities of surface, subsurface or even aerial launch platforms. With that in mind, the anti-missile countermeasures need to defeat the guidance package of the inbound missile.
I also expect that countermeasures like chaff are more of a last ditch effort, since they would be used against incoming missiles which have leaked through an area air defence umbrella, and apart from the countermeasures, the only other hardkill systems possibly available would be CIWS. Active softkill systems like Nulka IMO are likely more capable, but again seem primarily intended as part of a final effort.
Against torpedoes the question still remains, how often would a heavyweight torpedoe be fired from a sub, when the range is further than the sub could provide guidance updates? If most surface vessel warshots are taken with guidance from a sub, then the surface vessel's countermeasures need to be able to disrupt/defeat not only the torpedoe's onboard guidance package, but also the sensors and combat data system of the attacking sub.
-Cheers
Off-topic but after reading your post, something occured to me. Most combatants in most navies - even smaller non-NATO ones - are fitted with chaff launchers to decoy missiles. But, are most LPDs, LSTs or even combatants in larger NATO [which also have chaff launchers] fitted with torpedo decoys? Granted, it depends on the circumstances but I think people tend to place too much emphasis on the threat posed by air, land and sub launched sea skimmers but surely sub launched heavyweight torpedos pose an even greater threat? Do we know if USN, RN and Marine Nationale carriers are fitted with torpedo decoys as insurance in case a sub gets past their escorts?
Also, do we know yet if the AWDs will be fitted with Nulka or another system?
On a related note to the question about torpedoe decoys, how effective are they against modern heavyweight torpedoes, realistically?
Given that many of the sub-launched heavyweight torpedoes have wire guidance from the sub for some distance, I would imagine that decoys might only be effective when the torpedoe is reliant on its own onboard guidance package.
What might work better are bubbling systems like Praire Masker, perhaps working in concert with a noisemaker and/or depth bomb.
-Cheers
I see your point but surely we can say that same about chaff vs Sea skimmers as there are many variables involved as to whether chaff will work against the seeker head of a particular missile when the missile goes in the terminal phase? Same I think goes with active jammers as to how effective they will be against sea skimmers, especialy given that certain missiles have home on jam stuff fitted [assuming of course they work as advertised].
Started a new thread to avoid hijacking the RAN thread.
With respect to the countermeasures discussion, my question about the realistic impact of an anti-torpedoe countermeasure was more about how often a heavyweight torpedoe is/would be fired against a surface vessel, and have the torpedoe be forced to rely upon its own onboard guidance package.
With many of the AShM's available out there, the expectation is that the missiles would be fired against OTH targets, beyond the detection and guidance capabilities of surface, subsurface or even aerial launch platforms. With that in mind, the anti-missile countermeasures need to defeat the guidance package of the inbound missile.
I also expect that countermeasures like chaff are more of a last ditch effort, since they would be used against incoming missiles which have leaked through an area air defence umbrella, and apart from the countermeasures, the only other hardkill systems possibly available would be CIWS. Active softkill systems like Nulka IMO are likely more capable, but again seem primarily intended as part of a final effort.
Against torpedoes the question still remains, how often would a heavyweight torpedoe be fired from a sub, when the range is further than the sub could provide guidance updates? If most surface vessel warshots are taken with guidance from a sub, then the surface vessel's countermeasures need to be able to disrupt/defeat not only the torpedoe's onboard guidance package, but also the sensors and combat data system of the attacking sub.
-Cheers