A different outcome to WW2

[long live usa]

what if Japan had followed up the atack on pearl harbor with an invasion force and taken the island, what if germany had won the air battle over britain and taken it, what if the germans had suceeded in taking russia, and the axis troops would have met in india?, in my opinion the Americans would not have had enough time if britain and russia were knocked out,to build up there military and they would have either surendered or fought a noble but useless war only to be defeated,after that i think japan and germany(both of wich believed they were the only superior race)would have begun another war,thats what i think would happen what do you guys think would have happened?

 

[Big-E]

what if Japan had followed up the atack on pearl harbor with an invasion force and taken the island, what if germany had won the air battle over britain and taken it, what if the germans had suceeded in taking russia, and the axis troops would have met in india?, in my opinion the Americans would not have had enough time if britain and russia were knocked out,to build up there military and they would have either surendered or fought a noble but useless war only to be defeated,after that i think japan and germany(both of wich believed they were the only superior race)would have begun another war,thats what i think would happen what do you guys think would have happened?

If Hitler had not been an idiot (thank god) it might have happened. . . Using the Me-262 not as a pure day-fighter was stupid. . . not bombing USSR past the Urals to destroy production was stupid. . .if he had begun construction on the XXI U-boat instead of bulding more obsolete models was stupid. . invading Russia and not pushed on to Moscow before winter was stupid. . .not supplying Rommel with his requested orders was stupid. . . not pushing on the Brits at Dunkirk was really stupid.. . not building more Tiger and Panther tanks was stupid. . . wasting money on huge rail-guns was stupid. . .not waiting until he had built air-craft carriers b4 invading Poland was stupid. . .the list goes on and on. . . I think Germany and Japan could have taken everything except the Western Hemisphere if Adolph wasn't so dumb. America could hold her own and stand off with her nucs. . . Japan and Germany would definetly not be able to remain friendly with their two ethos.

 

[webmaster]

Big-E, please follow the forum rules.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Avoid excessive ..... dots in your replies.

 

[Big-E]

Big-E, please follow the forum rules.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Avoid excessive ..... dots in your replies.

sorry, thats my cyber-break of idea mark, i'll stop

 

[powerslavenegi]

If Hitler had not been an idiot (thank god) it might have happened. . . Using the Me-262 not as a pure day-fighter was stupid. . . not bombing USSR past the Urals to destroy production was stupid. . .if he had begun construction on the XXI U-boat instead of bulding more obsolete models was stupid. . invading Russia and not pushed on to Moscow before winter was stupid. . .not supplying Rommel with his requested orders was stupid. . . not pushing on the Brits at Dunkirk was really stupid.. . not building more Tiger and Panther tanks was stupid. . . wasting money on huge rail-guns was stupid. . .not waiting until he had built air-craft carriers b4 invading Poland was stupid. . .the list goes on and on. . . I think Germany and Japan could have taken everything except the Western Hemisphere if Adolph wasn't so dumb. America could hold her own and stand off with her nucs. . . Japan and Germany would definetly not be able to remain friendly with their two ethos.

Hitler was a fanatic but certainly not an Idiot,However the credit of the present status that the US enjoy's goes to Hitler,for it was his weaponization programme that lead to the development of the atomic bomb
that US boasts of having developed,also America's space programme owes it's success to German Engg. Robert Brown &co.

 

[Big-E]

Hitler was a fanatic but certainly not an Idiot,However the credit of the present status that the US enjoy's goes to Hitler,for it was his weaponization programme that lead to the development of the atomic bomb
that US boasts of having developed,also America's space programme owes it's success to German Engg. Robert Brown &co.

I don't see it that way, Hitler did not develop Germanys incredible high-tech weapons systems. They were the product of German engineers, give credit where credit is due. Hitler was a military idiot, but was an exellent dictator. That much I will give him.

 

[nuke_em]

I don't see it that way, Hitler did not develop Germanys incredible high-tech weapons systems. They were the product of German engineers, give credit where credit is due. Hitler was a military idiot, but was an exellent dictator. That much I will give him.

exactly man, hitler thought his own men were traitors. without trust how in the world was he going to go on teh offensive. his decisions luckily ended the notorious 3rd reich. werhner von braun the scientist that developed the v-1 and the v-2, many others i cant think of right now. nzi germany was quite ahead of us in the atomic bomb making process, however we sabotaged their programs by destroying their heavy water i think they called it or soft water labs which was used in the process of making the nuke. so big-E is correct. stalin was also a military idiot. he had no military experience. his generals where smarter than him. hitler fought till the end even gave orders from the fuhrer bunker even though russians were pillaging berlin upstairs. the war would have been very different if operation barbarossa hadnt been carried out, stalin would still have been with the nzis and felt safe, and the allies probably couldnt win the damn war.

 

[nuke_em]

If Hitler had not been an idiot (thank god) it might have happened. . . Using the Me-262 not as a pure day-fighter was stupid. . . not bombing USSR past the Urals to destroy production was stupid. . .if he had begun construction on the XXI U-boat instead of bulding more obsolete models was stupid. . invading Russia and not pushed on to Moscow before winter was stupid. . .not supplying Rommel with his requested orders was stupid. . . not pushing on the Brits at Dunkirk was really stupid.. . not building more Tiger and Panther tanks was stupid. . . wasting money on huge rail-guns was stupid. . .not waiting until he had built air-craft carriers b4 invading Poland was stupid. . .the list goes on and on. . . I think Germany and Japan could have taken everything except the Western Hemisphere if Adolph wasn't so dumb. America could hold her own and stand off with her nucs. . . Japan and Germany would definetly not be able to remain friendly with their two ethos.

dude me-262s couldnt still do anything because the # needed were never produced so it couldnt change the ride of the war, anyways the allies were stilll finding out how to handle the yolk so the speed would increase. japan was only able to conquer much land cuz of man power. its weapons were outdated, they never had a lot of smgs, their pistols like the nambu were cery muhc like bull excrements, but their navy was superior and their airplanes, we got a lot of our tech from them, hideo itkawa i think was the man who helped make a japanese jet aircraft
yes one more thing the german tanks were huge and powerful machines but they werent implemented the right way and too less in numbers sherman tanks however inferior they could have been they were thousands and thousands in numbers
srry forgot the stats
keep me posted

 

[long live usa]

exactly man, hitler thought his own men were traitors. without trust how in the world was he going to go on teh offensive. his decisions luckily ended the notorious 3rd reich. werhner von braun the scientist that developed the v-1 and the v-2, many others i cant think of right now. nzi germany was quite ahead of us in the atomic bomb making process, however we sabotaged their programs by destroying their heavy water i think they called it or soft water labs which was used in the process of making the nuke. so big-E is correct. stalin was also a military idiot. he had no military experience. his generals where smarter than him. hitler fought till the end even gave orders from the fuhrer bunker even though russians were pillaging berlin upstairs. the war would have been very different if operation barbarossa hadnt been carried out, stalin would still have been with the nzis and felt safe, and the allies probably couldnt win the damn war.

yet if hitler had not been such a stupid pig during operation barbarossa stoping his troops outside of moscow and diverting troops to the south russia very well could have crumbled freeing hundreds of thousands of german troops wich he could have threw against britain,also i dont think japan and germany would stay freindly for very long if a war broke out after they took eurasia and possibly africa i think the germans with thier better equipment would have beat the japanese

 

[nuke_em]

what if Japan had followed up the atack on pearl harbor with an invasion force and taken the island, what if germany had won the air battle over britain and taken it, what if the germans had suceeded in taking russia, and the axis troops would have met in india?, in my opinion the Americans would not have had enough time if britain and russia were knocked out,to build up there military and they would have either surendered or fought a noble but useless war only to be defeated,after that i think japan and germany(both of wich believed they were the only superior race)would have begun another war,thats what i think would happen what do you guys think would have happened?

about the thing about India, the kriegsmarine well always hunting down RN ships aorund their coast, and to Hilter supposedly gave help along with japan to Indian freedom fighers who wanted to oust those british out of their, anyways so all i am trying to say is that hilter had always could have gone to india but the revolutionists take care of the rest.
it would have been highly unlikely for germany to delcare war or japan and vice versa because the allies had already pinned em down, their resources were going to the pacific(Japan) and to the European theater( Germany), and they are on like the other sides of the world.

 

[long live usa]

about the thing about India, the kriegsmarine well always hunting down RN ships aorund their coast, and to Hilter supposedly gave help along with japan to Indian freedom fighers who wanted to oust those british out of their, anyways so all i am trying to say is that hilter had always could have gone to india but the revolutionists take care of the rest.
it would have been highly unlikely for germany to delcare war or japan and vice versa because the allies had already pinned em down, their resources were going to the pacific(Japan) and to the European theater( Germany), and they are on like the other sides of the world.

thats not what im saying im saying what if they(japan and germany)had beat all of the allies except america wich would not be on an ofensive without russia or britain with germany and japan both believing they were "the superior race"if they had eurasia all to themselves they could not have remained freindly there egos and likely land disputes would have led them to war

 

[nuke_em]

ok then now a lot of things change. Scenario: Germany and Japan both have become technologically superior and germnay has a nuke, jets are a major part of their arsenal and japan has probably phased out the irasonka(rifle) and is greater in strength, germany now controls europe so ethnice cleansing is at its height and a common currency is put in place quite like the Euro now, if these forces were to meet then World war 3 would have technically happened but it really would be germany vs. Japan. Bloody brutal and decisive thats all i can say,

 

[nuke_em]

yet if hitler had not been such a stupid pig during operation barbarossa stoping his troops outside of moscow and diverting troops to the south russia very well could have crumbled freeing hundreds of thousands of german troops wich he could have threw against britain,also i dont think japan and germany would stay freindly for very long if a war broke out after they took eurasia and possibly africa i think the germans with thier better equipment would have beat the japanese

also his men killed millions of russian civilians, i mean if he hadnt done that than i think the russians wouldnt have been so fierce and the event like the raising of the berlin wall wouldnt have happened,
like i said before a war between the axis was unlikely but yes germany could have won if think about their high tech weapons , but dont underestimate the japanese i mean they had more man power than the germans and they would fight till the end( ex: kamikazi meaning divine wind)
if he by any chance invaded britain the consequences would have been devastating be

 

[long live usa]

ok then now a lot of things change. Scenario: Germany and Japan both have become technologically superior and germnay has a nuke, jets are a major part of their arsenal and japan has probably phased out the irasonka(rifle) and is greater in strength, germany now controls europe so ethnice cleansing is at its height and a common currency is put in place quite like the Euro now, if these forces were to meet then World war 3 would have technically happened but it really would be germany vs. Japan. Bloody brutal and decisive thats all i can say,

yeah if japan would have become less brutal on the chinese and created "the east asian co prosperity sphere"(think i got that right)they might have been able to start drafting chinese troops giving them old equipment but overwelming numbers,giving there newer weapons to thier higher trained homeland soldiers,i also know the japanese were developing jet fighters,and i bet thier navy could have beaten the kriegsmarine,but the germans would have better trained soldiers,and probably had better tanks and apc's and small arms,i also know that the germans actually used jet fighters in WW2,even if the germans had better training and weapons they may have been overwhelmed massive numbers

 

[nuke_em]

chinese wouldnt have their culture migth seem alike but theyre not they have been enemies for i long time i think i really dont know but soome atrosities comminted were just horrendous. they made chinese men ravage their daughters and mothers. disgusting i know, the japanese where just like the nazis no different.

 

[Big-E]

yeah if japan would have become less brutal on the chinese and created "the east asian co prosperity sphere"(think i got that right)they might have been able to start drafting chinese troops giving them old equipment but overwelming numbers,giving there newer weapons to thier higher trained homeland soldiers,i also know the japanese were developing jet fighters,and i bet thier navy could have beaten the kriegsmarine,but the germans would have better trained soldiers,and probably had better tanks and apc's and small arms,i also know that the germans actually used jet fighters in WW2,even if the germans had better training and weapons they may have been overwhelmed massive numbers

First off, I think any drafted Chinese troops would desert as soon as they had a chance. As far as the Kriegsmarine, the type XXI U-boat would have made short work of the Imperial Navy. If we are talking about a war for eurasia much of it would have been fought over the steppes of Russia leading to big tank open army battles I think the Germans had a clear advantage in this kind of warfare and would have made short work of the Emporers troops. The Germans were years ahead of Japan in terms of jet propulsion, ballistic missles and nuclear fussion, if they had been given a few years to develop this technology it would have mirrored a Cold-War American force

 

[abramsteve]

Both countries would have to completley change the ( I dont know the word Im looking for) way their armies approach war fighting. The German army would be trained and honed to fight wars in european terrain, the Japanese would be for that Asia/Pacific. I dout the Germans would be able to support naval operations in the Pacific on the same scale as that which the US did, and I cant really see Japanese armies rolling across the Russian steppes or into the middle east. I think the Japanese would be content if they controlled Asia, and I dont think even Hittler would see the value of advancing deep into India and the Pacific. A question though, has the US been occupied or just knocked out of the war? What about Canada, and had Australia been completley overun and occupied by the Japanese? If not then maybe there could be a third power?

 

[Big-E]

Both countries would have to completley change the ( I dont know the word Im looking for) way their armies approach war fighting. The German army would be trained and honed to fight wars in european terrain, the Japanese would be for that Asia/Pacific. I dout the Germans would be able to support naval operations in the Pacific on the same scale as that which the US did, and I cant really see Japanese armies rolling across the Russian steppes or into the middle east. I think the Japanese would be content if they controlled Asia, and I dont think even Hittler would see the value of advancing deep into India and the Pacific. A question though, has the US been occupied or just knocked out of the war? What about Canada, and had Australia been completley overun and occupied by the Japanese? If not then maybe there could be a third power?

The word is "tactics". I really think that Hitler and Japan would have teamed up to beat the U.S. before they attacked each other. Without the advantage of captured German technologies I think America and remaining allies, Australia/Cananda would have had a hard time keeping them at bay with conventional forces. Assuming US had been sitting on her hands during WWII they probably would not have advanced very far in military technologies either, necessity is the mother of invention. So your talking about Germany and Japan sharing technologies that are a decade ahead of their enemies and are in control of most of the worlds land mass. America would be attacked from the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Its not like the arsenal of democracy kicked in over night, it would have taken some time to build equipment that wouldn't exist with Imperial and Third Reich troops landing on your beaches.

 

[abramsteve]

Thanks for that. If the Japanese had taken Hawaii and the rest of Asia, and had somehow convinced the US to become neutral, then I dont think they would have sat idily especially with an aggresive enemy on her eastern border as well.This would make any invasion of the US mainland extremly difficult.

However I read somwhere about how the original reasons behind the long range bomber projects as having somthing to do with a potential threat from German forces in South America. I dont know how true that is, but if the Germans were involved down there then maybe this could be a jumping off point for such an invasion. Perhaps a three pronged attack, if such a thing was logistically possible for the Germans and Japanese.

Yet I still see American industrial might being enough to defend her from an invasion, maybe not enough to defend Australia, or even to defeat a Japan-Germany alliance, but enough to hold her own.

 

[Big-E]

Thanks for that. If the Japanese had taken Hawaii and the rest of Asia, and had somehow convinced the US to become neutral, then I dont think they would have sat idily especially with an aggresive enemy on her eastern border as well.This would make any invasion of the US mainland extremly difficult.

However I read somwhere about how the original reasons behind the long range bomber projects as having somthing to do with a potential threat from German forces in South America. I dont know how true that is, but if the Germans were involved down there then maybe this could be a jumping off point for such an invasion. Perhaps a three pronged attack, if such a thing was logistically possible for the Germans and Japanese.

Yet I still see American industrial might being enough to defend her from an invasion, maybe not enough to defend Australia, or even to defeat a Japan-Germany alliance, but enough to hold her own.

If the Japanese had taken Hawaii, the US wouldn't remain neutral. The whole thought of the US not doing something makes this whole thread pretty far out there to begin with. The only way this would have been possible was if the US isolationists had won and Japan skipped Pearl Harbor.

I definetly agree that if this scenerio had played out that Germany would attack from South America. It makes the most vulnerable target in the Western Hemisphere. Japan would probably have worked their way down Alaska through Canada.

As far as the US industrial base, if Germany had built her long range bombers, based in the wing design, it would have been vulnerable to strategic bombing runs. If they hit the plants in Detriot this would have seriously hampered US tank production. The main reason the US was able to supply so many weapons was b/c they were unhindered in their production capacity. Bombing of US cities would have interfered with that. The combined industrail capacity of Europe, Asia, and Africa would have been at the Axis powers disposal. I don't think North America with all her sea trade cut off could compete with that.