121 Land-Overlander Tender

[profpinz]

Is anybody familiar with any current developments in the Australian 121 Land - Overlander tender?
Has there been any further developments / decisions made to date?

I’m interested in the current “alliances” and teaming arrangements that make up the various contenders and particularly the “lighter end” of the tender.

TENEX DEFENCE: Land Rover Range (4x4 / 6x6 Land Rover Defenders and variants)
AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE INDUSTRIES: Pinzgauer 716 / 718 and variants
DAIMLER CHRYSLER AUSTRALIA-PACIFIC: G-Wagen
GENERAL DYNAMICS: Duro.

Traditionally LR have an advantage but as to whether this will count in the current climate, who knows!

One interesting glitch which may affect the overall lineup is that while ADI have a “teaming agreement”, with Automotive Technik (AT) to offer the Pinzgauer as the light military component of their submission, they also have an agreement with Oshkosh to supply the medium / heavy sector.
http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/default.php?category=News&pageName=7&detail=true
http://www.battle-technology.com/this_issue06.html

Stewart and Stevenson who now own AT, are also a contender in the medium / heavy sector of the 121 tender and I understand they are somewhat “peeved” at competing against a supplier who is using their own product!

 

[Rocco_NZ]

With Stuart and Stevenson now owning Pinzgaur, it does look like an attractice package from them.

NZ obviously chose the Pinzgaurs (or Shrek's as they are sometimes known), then only competitor in the tendering process here was a left hand drive HMMWV. The simple armour package it offers may give it an advantage over the other vehicles.

 

[profpinz]

NZ obviously chose the Pinzgaurs (or Shrek's as they are sometimes known),

Why SHREKS?

 

[Rocco_NZ]

Seen the movie?

Squat, tough and green!

 

[profpinz]

How interesting....I've NEVER heard of Pinzgauers been called that before. I must make note and put it up on the Pinzgauer Forum!

As to the 121 Land Tender it is all extremely quiet but I understand there is meant to be some word in July.

Recent news re Stewart and Stevenson was that they themslves were acquired by Armor Holdings Inc recently and as a result they have decided to rename Automotive Technik (manufacturers of the Pingauer in the UK) to PINZGAUER LTD.
I hope whoever is looking after the 121 Tender is keeping abreast of all the name changes etc.

http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/default.php?category=News&pageName=19&detail=true
http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/default.php?category=News&pageName=20&detail=true

 

[old faithful]

unless ADI, have improved, i would stick with LR. Famil with these vehicles as well as logistics are already in place.

 

[profpinz]

Has anyone heard any news re the 121-Overlander Tender process to date.....I understood there was going to be some outcome / results around July, but that time has come and gone!

 

[profpinz]

It's been many months now and there has been little or no news (at least that I have heard) re the 121 Land-Overlander Tender.
Does anybody know what's happening re the vehicle selection process or when a possible outcome is expected?

 

[Todjaeger]

Last I had heard, and I unfortunately don't remember where... Is that LR was backing out, so take it with a grain of salt. But also there hasn't seemed to be much of a rush to work on the Overlander project. Possibly as a result of the planned expansion of the Army or the Hardened & Networked Army.

-Cheers

 

[MARKMILES77]

The Tenix/LandRover consortium withdrew the LandRover from Project Overlander. It IS NOT being offered at all.

ADI and ATI/Pinzgauer have split.
ADI said the Pinzgauer could not be uparmoured to the DMO desired standard, except at a very high price.
On the other hand Stewart and Stevenson probably wanted to offer the Pinzgauer themselves.
S and S and Pinzgauer are now teamed.
Rumour is S and S have offered their trucks at a VERY FAVOURABLE PRICE.
BUT I don't think S and S offers anything in the 16 tonne payload capacity which is one of the requirements.


ADI and Oshkosh are teamed. As part of their offer, 700 Bushmaster based 4X4 and 6X6 Logistics vehicles are being offered (now known as the Copperhead or Bushmaster UTE). I don't think they are offering anything in the LandRover replacement category.

Mack trucks are offering the full range of vehicles from a LandRover replacement to the 16 tonne payload truck. Although all of the vehicles will be badged as MACKs they are in fact all Renault vehicles.

Mercedes is offering the full range of vehicles.

MAN are offering trucks.


Decision is due in the next few months.

 

[hunniebunnie79]

There has been alot of speculation in the press about the likely outcome of this tender.

I think it will be very interesting to see who is successful, and it will tell us alot about the current climate in which Defence's purchasing strategies are working.

It is certainly interesting that while the official line is that Australian companies are looked upon favourably, many of the recent vehicle purchases have been Japanese (Isuzu) and European (MAN). It begs the question how much weight does an Australian company really carry in a tender of this size?

It seems that recently DMO have been taking advantage of exchange rates and purchasing on price, rather than supporting the Australian economy.

While there are much rumours about the proposed tenderers and their solution, it seems that this is one tender that DMO are keeping tightly under wraps and we may all be surprised with which way they decide to go.

Land 121 i certainly a hot issue for Army at the moment, but yet trying to find out information is nearly impossible, it would be good to at least have a true overview of the tenderers and the vehicle ranges they are proposing.

Hopefully we wont e waiting too much longer to hear something.... :nutkick

 

[MARKMILES77]

At Avalon, the truck manufacturers seemed to think there would be no decision until next year. Since that would be after the election, it could well be a Labour Government that would make the decision.
If Labour does get in, there will likely be no major decisions for a significant time while they get to grips with the Defence department.

 

[old faithful]

At Avalon, the truck manufacturers seemed to think there would be no decision until next year. Since that would be after the election, it could well be a Labour Government that would make the decision.
If Labour does get in, there will likely be no major decisions for a significant time while they get to grips with the Defence department.

If labor get in :shudder expect purchases such as the wiggles big red car! and candy bombs that release cool fruit clusters over the enemy....(so as not to hurt or offend anyone)...

 

[icelord]

Now now lets not get hysterical, Bomber beazley is gone, so we won't end up purchasing 2nd hand items, much like Kanimbla and manoora, since Rudds very close to China...so we may end up with Made in China on the side....HAHAHAHA!!!

 

[hunniebunnie79]

Winners Chosen

Australia Taps Winners for $2.6B Vehicle Program By Gregor Ferguson, SYDNEY
BAE Systems, Daimler Chrysler and local firm Haulmark Trailers Australia have been chosen to replace most of the Australian Defence Force’s current fleet of trucks, trailers and utility vehicles in a program worth $3 billion Australian ($2.65 billion).
Defense Minister Brendan Nelson announced in Brisbane on Oct. 5 that the Australian army will acquire approximately 1,000 Mercedes Benz G-Wagen four-wheel-drive and six-wheel-drive utility vehicles, 2,400 Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles (FMTV) trucks from BAE Systems Mobility and Protection Systems (formerly Armor Holdings), and 3,000 trailers of different sizes from Brisbane-based Haulmark.
Exact numbers and configuration remain subject to contract negotiations, which are expected to take about six months. The vehicles will be acquired under Phase 3 of Project Overlander, which also logged an order in August for 250 armored and mine-protected Bushmaster Infantry Mobility Vehicles (IMV), worth $300 million Australian, from Thales Australia here.
“Many specialist vehicle modules, trailers and all the Bushmasters will be produced in Australia,” Nelson said. “This Australian portion is worth approximately 800 million [Australian dollars].
“When deployed on operations, the vehicles will be capable of being fitted with enhanced protection to reduce the risk to our service men and women from threats such as suicide bombers, improvised explosive devices, land mines, bullets and other projectiles,” he added.
The new trucks will progressively replace the Australian Defence Force’s current inventory of Mercedes Benz Unimog 4-ton trucks and Mack and International heavy trucks and semi-trailers.
Phases 4 and 5 of Project Overlander are slated for funding approval in 2010 and 2012, respectively, according to the head of Project Overlander, Brigadier David O’Brien.
Phase 4 will see the acquisition of a further 1,200 armored light vehicles in the 1- and 2-ton payload class worth an estimated $1.2 billion Australian, he said, while Phase 5 will see the acquisition of about 2,000 unprotected, commercial off-the-shelf trucks and utility vehicles worth about $300 million Australian. These will be used for training and low-risk logistics tasks, he said.
“Protection is a key aspect of Overlander,” O’Brien said. While the G-Wagen four- and six-wheel-drive vehicles will be only lightly protected, many of the 5-, 10- and 16-ton payload FMTVs and semi-trailers will have armored cabs or be capable of carrying Survivability Enhancement Kits (SEK) to protect their crews and occupants in high-threat environments.
The 1,200 protected vehicles to be acquired under Phase 4 of Project Overlander, along with the 1,000 G-Wagens to be ordered under Phase 3, will replace the Army’s current fleet of soft-skinned Landrover four- and six-wheel-drive vehicles. However, O’Brien said, the Special Forces’ long-range patrol vehicles, which are based on the Landrover six-wheel design, will not be replaced under Project Overlander.
A separate, classified procurement program, Project Redfin, is charged with re-equipping the Special Air Service Regiment and the Army’s two commando regiments with new and upgraded vehicles, weapons, communications and other mission equipment, O’Brien said.
Sources at BAE Systems Australia, Adelaide, and DaimlerChrysler Australia/Pacific, Melbourne, said the exact number and configurations of the vehicles to be ordered in Phase 3 would be subject to contract negotiations. The value of Project Overlander to BAE Systems is estimated to be between $1 billion Australian and $1.5 billion Australian, the company said in a statement Oct. 5, and includes payload modules, technical services and spare parts.
It’s likely that most of the vehicles ordered under Phase 3 of Project Overlander will be imported fully assembled and fitted with specialist role equipment such as winches, radios and specialized payload modules in Australia.

 

[icelord]

However, O’Brien said, the Special Forces’ long-range patrol vehicles, which are based on the Landrover six-wheel design, will not be replaced under Project Overlander.
A separate, classified procurement program, Project Redfin, is charged with re-equipping the Special Air Service Regiment and the Army’s two commando regiments with new and upgraded vehicles, weapons, communications and other mission equipment, O’Brien said.
.

My understanding, although limited, is that 30 Supacat MWMIK,to be in service with the British SAS, have been ordered and will be known as the Nary, after the WO killed during training for Iraq.
Some details on Brits Version
http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/mobility-troop/supacat/

 

[riksavage]

The SASR already have limited numbers of Supacat MWMIK's. They were on display at Swanborne @ the recent 50 year anniversary celebrations. It would not surprise me to see the NZ SAS buying limited numbers of the same model.

 

[buglerbilly]

The SASR already have limited numbers of Supacat MWMIK's. They were on display at Swanborne @ the recent 50 year anniversary celebrations. It would not surprise me to see the NZ SAS buying limited numbers of the same model.

Really? I thought the Project Redfin decision related to this wasn't due until November onwards some time?

I also haven't seen any images which I also find remarkable considering the level of interest in these vehicles.

Regards,

BUG

 

[AGRA]

Redfin chose the Supacat for Nary SOV last year sometime. First deliveries I think are meant to be this year for 32 vehicles plus prototype. The Raven RCWS will make these babies ultra-gucci. Its meant to be a 'secret' project - hence no pictures - but industry have been blabbing about it for ages.

 

[buglerbilly]

Yeah but the ultra-Gucci babes would usually get announced formally at least once. I have no doubt that some are being trialled right now, and possibly all are delivered already BUT it is strange to my mind that nothing appears in print. The fact they have the RWS would also make them stand out.

There is not a lot happens around the barracks that doesn't get photo'd at some point.

The only reason they spat the dummy earlier this year was because our discussions elsewhere were drawing FAR too many correct conclusions, that and the fact the Supacat website already has 6x6 versions NOT used by anyone except Oz as far as I know, shown in desert light tan plain camo.

I thought the 34 or so vehicles was for SASR only and not inclusive of rumoured provision for Commandoes, etc?