The most advanced Air Forces today?

[YellowFever]

Umm...AD...just a simple (maybe ignorant) question:

What exactly does it mean when you say the SH "will be wired for Growler capability".

Does this mean it will be a Growler?
It's just a SH that can easily be converted to a Growler?
It already has all the necesary hadrware in it and all it needs is source codes?

I really don't know.

Can you explain that to me?

Is it anything like HD ready TV?

Thanks in advance....

 

[Todjaeger]

Umm...AD...just a simple (maybe ignorant) question:

What exactly does it mean when you say the SH "will be wired for Growler capability".

Does this mean it will be a Growler?
It's just a SH that can easily be converted to a Growler?
It already has all the necesary hadrware in it and all it needs is source codes?

I really don't know.

Can you explain that to me?

Is it anything like HD ready TV?

Thanks in advance....

As I understand it, the wiring loom of the Growler is more extensive than that of an -F model SH. This is likely due to a need for more extensive ESM/ECM (and ECCM) equipment. What seems to be planned for 12 of the RAAF SH's on order is to what -F models with the wiring in place so that they can be (comparatively) easily modified into Growlers.

AFAIK currently any SH -F Block II model could be converted into a Growler, but that would require extensive modification work to install the needed cabling internally to reach the various where the various emitters, antennae, etc are located. I would expect that the cost would be such that, unless absolutely necessary, it would not be done.

-Cheers

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

Of the top of my head, my top ten most advanced (not biggest) world air forces would look like this:

US
UK
France
Australia
Japan
S. Korea
Rest of NATO
Russia
India
China

Of course if you want the largest air forces then the picture would look different. I clarify this because some on the first page seem to be confusing their terms. Biggest ≠ Most advanced necessarily.

your opinion i respect that. but some things i want to clarify.
Australia has no domestic capability of producing its own fighters, neither do Japan, South Korea, India so in wartime scenario were their suppliers possibly cannot fufil the order or provide them with parts their sitting targets. None of these have produced fighters own their own without foreign cooperation, and if they want to be advance they'll need to start working on turbofans, BVR, weapons suites, etc..... India LCA when it enters service would already be an obsolete airframe. China has already turbofans in final test phase, several fighter projects underway, and some finished and in service. Russia is still advance in many fields but it just to disperesed currently. Patience will help Russia. so in the future my list not in rank order would be.

Top5. (not in order)

US
UK
France
Russia
China

nato not a country so you might as well say SCO airforce, or asian airforce, etc...

im really sceptical about india. they rely too much on joint projects. and still havent produced a domestic fighter or decent turbofan yet. unless they start now on engines, its an achilles heel for them in the future.

 

[ASFC]

your opinion i respect that. but some things i want to clarify.
Australia has no domestic capability of producing its own fighters, neither do Japan, South Korea, India so in wartime scenario were their suppliers possibly cannot fufil the order or provide them with parts their sitting targets. None of these have produced fighters own their own without foreign cooperation, and if they want to be advance they'll need to start working on turbofans, BVR, weapons suites, etc..... India LCA when it enters service would already be an obsolete airframe. China has already turbofans in final test phase, several fighter projects underway, and some finished and in service. Russia is still advance in many fields but it just to disperesed currently. Patience will help Russia. so in the future my list not in rank order would be.

Top5. (not in order)

US
UK
France
Russia
China

nato not a country so you might as well say SCO airforce, or asian airforce, etc...

im really sceptical about india. they rely too much on joint projects. and still havent produced a domestic fighter or decent turbofan yet. unless they start now on engines, its an achilles heel for them in the future.

So now you are saying that your ability to build your own air force domestically should determine how advanced it is? I don't buy it. The OP was asking for todays most advanced air forces, not who would be the most advanced if war came, or whos supply chains would fail in war. Whilst i'm open to debate, you would be a foolish country to just disregard the air forces that Australia, S. Korea, Japan field or what NATO would have if the alliance went to war.

And I wouldn't discount NATO-as someone else pointed out they all have access to varying degrees of US technology. It might not be a country, but if NATO went to war (as unlikely as that may be) it would pretty much operate as one air force.

 

[Wall83]

When you start to think about it the only country in the world that could match the US is Russia, if they had the money I am sure they would have gotten the MiG-1.44 and Su-47 in service 10-12 years ago and the PAK-FA 5-10 years after that.
Countries like China who has alot of money to spend still strugles with general design, engiens ecs. I am sure the EU could build a great plane, but there its not relly political correct to spend billions of dollars on military products. It will take many many years before a replacement for the Eurofighter will turn up for exampel.

 

[Feanor]

The Su-47 doesn't represent anything all that revolutionary as far as I can tell. No AESA was available at the time. Avionics were not fundamentally ahead of the Su-27M. The airframe is not VLO, though I guess 10% of a conventional fighter jets RCS (whatever that means ) is a pretty big step forward.

 

[Aussie Digger]

AD is the ROVER tactical data-link similar to the one supplied by L3 Communications? I have also seen an Australian presentation on the ROVER tactical data-link. Can you provide a little more information (as I am very curious about what it brings to the table)?

Yep, this is the system:

http://www.l-3com.com/csw/Product/docs/07-ROVER-III-Receiver.pdf

It brings extremely capable ISR download , including full motion video from jets, UAV's, helo's if you wanted ,to JTAC's and other ground forces. RAAF has integrated it with it's Litening AT pods and ground forces can now receive full video and FLIR imagery straight from the jet.

Very useful from all appearances...

Makes wet film based systems look a bit ordinary...

 

[Bang-Bang]

I don't think India should be that far up on the list I would put Israel,UK, France, Russia, above India.


I thought India only around 70 MKI Flankers and HAL won't finished the rest until 2015/2017, I think most of the above countries how more advance platforms operational




Still waiting on any real information nothing to sink your teeth into yet.




Isn't this going on for seven or eight years now still two or three years away from getting the first batch, small numbers built by the seller. I believe the rest will be built by HAL so look at around the pace of MKI Flankers being produce give or take. I don't think you count this yet since nothing has really been started.


I read about the Mig-23 retiring and the Mig-21s are a little different some of the Bison models are useful. India's Mig-29 fleet is on the older side as well another huge project that's taking a few years to get started.

2: Who has the strongest Air Force in 2025?

I think i was saying this on a base of 2025 .

F-15&16's are now old machine ... Many nations are replacing it ..

India can counter EF with Su mk3 , it will be more advance Fighter .....

Rafale stands in Medium weight category.

India cant compete with Russia , Even a Child know that .....

First flight of PAKFA is gonna be on 09 or 19th of august , 2009 .... On MAKS Show .. I was having alink of it , but lost it ... i will find it soon and will post it here .


HAL Will produce 14~16 MKI's per year ....

Mig-23 will be replaced with MKI's . LCA will replace Mig-21. MRCA will replace Mig27 & Mig29 .....



And 3 Phalcons (It can be 6 aswell) ,

 

[Aussie Digger]

Umm...AD...just a simple (maybe ignorant) question:

What exactly does it mean when you say the SH "will be wired for Growler capability".

Does this mean it will be a Growler?
It's just a SH that can easily be converted to a Growler?
It already has all the necesary hadrware in it and all it needs is source codes?

I really don't know.

Can you explain that to me?

Is it anything like HD ready TV?

Thanks in advance....

From all reports, the cabling etc weighs more than 200kg's per aircraft. The provision thus has to be made during production for the necessary wiring so that the aircraft can be upgraded at a later date for the ALQ-218 and ALQ-99 pod systems etc that the Growler uses that actually provides the Growler capability.

With this work performed, RAAF's 12x F/A-18F Super Hornets, so wired, could be upgraded to the full Growler configuration if we choose. The other 12 and others who may order the aircraft, but do not do this, are "limited" to the capability inherent in the Super.

 

[OPSSG]

Yep, this is the system:

Makes wet film based systems look a bit ordinary...

Thanks for that.

I'm getting the suspicion that both our air forces have complementary capabilities by design....

http://www.l-3com.com/csw/Product/docs/07-ROVER-III-Receiver.pdf

It brings extremely capable ISR download , including full motion video from jets, UAV's, helo's if you wanted ,to JTAC's and other ground forces. RAAF has integrated it with it's Litening AT pods and ground forces can now receive full video and FLIR imagery straight from the jet.

Very useful from all appearances...

Makes wet film based systems look a bit ordinary...

I'm going to have to go search and buy new electronics gear after reading about the system... :type

 

[Aussie Digger]

Thanks for that.

I'm getting the suspicion that both our air forces have complementary capabilities by design....

Seems that way, doesn't it?

 

[gf0012-aust]

The airframe is not VLO, though I guess 10% of a conventional fighter jets RCS (whatever that means ) is a pretty big step forward.

Remember thats also relative to the aircraft of the time. Its worth noting that the US had the X-29 and also decided that it was not worth pursuing. There are a number of reasons for this.

• flight control tech of the time
• materials science issues
• cost relative to benefit
• cost relative to performance
  
  I'm not so sure anyone would want a switchblade/FSW against current sensor systems. They'd stand out like a nun in the middle of a nudist colony.
  
  

 

[djpav]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned either Greece or Turkey in this discussion as they both have formidable airforces with practically hundreds of F-16's each. Am I completely wrong?

 

[ROCK45]

Most advance air force

Bang-Bang
I think i was saying this on a base of 2025

I didn't know you were referring to the Wall83's post my bad.

F-15&16's are now old machine ... Many nations are replacing it

Many are still buying new and both platforms are very modern in fact I would say that newer Block-52/F-15SG are slightly more advance equipment wise then a MKI Flankers in some areas.

India can counter EF with Su mk3 , it will be more advance
Fighter

"It will be ? On what do you base that on? I think both platforms have there strengths and in the end pilot training and who has better outside support AWACS etc, may decide any final outcome.

Rafale stands in Medium weight category.

I don't get what your saying India doesn't have them yet? Is this direct at me or another poster?

India cant compete with Russia , Even a Child know that

Yes I agree even a child knows that?

First flight of PAKFA is gonna be on 09 or 19th of august , 2009 .... On MAKS Show .. I was having alink of it , but lost it ... i will find it soon and will post it here .

Let me know how that makes out please don't bother even posting a link to a drawing, picture, lets see if it really happens. Please don't take that in a bad way I have just been hearing about the PAKFA 5th generation program for a long time. Let just wait and see.

HAL Will produce 14~16 MKI's per year ..

Is that MKI Flankers per year or some aircraft they haven't bought yet? Wouldn't that a little difficult to say have many aircraft your going to build without even having the production line made and setup? See where I'm coming from? For the MKI 14/16 per year seems pretty good to me maybe others would know if that's a low amount or not.

Mig-23 will be replaced with MKI's . LCA will replace Mig-21. MRCA will replace Mig27 & Mig29

The MKI Flankers are very real and being produced I see that happening. The other two projects haven't exactly happen yet I guess in time, but I did read that the Mig-27s were going to be retired.

And 3 Phalcons (It can be 6 aswell)

I guess it could stay 3 as well? Great purchases for India overall.

djpav
I am surprised nobody has mentioned either Greece or Turkey in this discussion as they both have formidable airforces with practically hundreds of F-16's each. Am I completely wrong?

Your correct both are well equipped, have a high level of training, NATO members, good catch.

Don't know if anybody mention south Korea but I would rate their air force as being advance. Good training, good equipment, has a aircraft industry of their own now.

 

[dragonfire]

i would argue that after USAF the second most capable would be USN.

even American Navy has an army that has an air force that would be pretty high up on the list.

A moot point but the US has also got a Air National Guard; its inventory is although mostly hand me down fighters which have completed its stated life within the Air Force but continue in service, I alos read somewhere that the Air National Guard is also going to order new F-16s as well, while most other countries keep older fighters in cold storage the US has a unique system of keeping its fighters within the gambit of operational activity albeit with an internal; defence org

 

[dragonfire]

No I would think that China and India will compet for the number one air force. But sure the USAF would still be a big contender.

I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....:vamp

True, the oldest fighter in the Indian Air Force by 2020 will be 4+ generation aircrafts. They also will have fighters in great numbers. If you look at Russia the probably will have 4+ - 5th generations fighters as well but not in very large numbers.
As for the USAF its hard to say. The F-35 will be in service but they still will be flying with older F-16 and F-15 planes.

Guys there is no question here that even in 2025 US will have the most credible air power given the maturity of their current technology, also US is the only country with stealth - long range bombers, any country looking at beating US in terms of capability needs to be able to bring out similar if not better tech - i dont c it happening in the next 15-16 yrs

 

[freethinker]

From a purely technical standpoint Sweden has a fairly advanced airfleet with some 144 gripen fighters and 6 AEW's. Sweden also has domestic production capabilities and ongoing R&D in to the JAS Gripen program and weapon systems so their missiles and electronics will always be up to the lastest standard.
Countries without those capabilities are lagging behind by a large margin fielding planes with obsolete radars weapons and electronics.

 

[OPSSG]

Many are still buying new and both platforms are very modern in fact I would say that newer Block-52/F-15SG are slightly more advance equipment wise then a MKI Flankers in some areas.

"It will be ? On what do you base that on? I think both platforms have there strengths and in the end pilot training and who has better outside support AWACS etc, may decide any final outcome.

@ROCK45,
I did not want to talk up the capabilities of the F-15SG and the block 52+, as I did not want to be seen as a nationalistic chest thumper. Therefore, thanks for the above informed response to Bang-Bang's post on F-15&16's being replaced.

@dragonfire,
Good to see you around!

 

[SkolZkiy]

US first undoubtfully
Russia second - also undoubtfully, look at numbers and just remember that nowadays situation with training and repairing of AC is much better then it was even 5 years ago.
no one of NATO members even UK or Germany, nor France or China could be compared to these two countries.

 

[exported_kiwi]

RCS = Radar Cross Section.....observability or inobservability to radars.