Pirates

[ROCK45]

Djibouti

Thanks kato
Had a brain lock up pretty impressive air assets lined up even helicopters on station as well.

I hope the Mirages and helicopter get a chance to take out the pirate boats in the open and have it covered in the press for all to see. Depending on the situation and types of Boats involved I think the helicopter may be more useful.

Are these forces assembled allowed to land forces in Somalia and take on the pirate on the ground if they make it back to land?

 

[kato]

Don't know about the (US) Blackhawks, but the French units form a definitive structure - the AS.555 is for light utility / liaison purposes, two SA.330B are for local SAR, and the other five SA.330B serve as transport helos (for about a company of soldiers) with the three SA.341F acting as scouts and light fire support (with a 20mm gun as only armament) for this air assault unit.

I have my doubts about this unit being allowed to go on raids into Somalia though, unless it's an all-out assault. In an all-out assault, there'd also be a EDIC loaded with a marine company ready in Djibouti.

For small raiding actions, on the French side, the Panther helos carried by the two Floreals acting out of La Reunion would also be likely. Interestingly, CTF-150 currently has no less than three amphibious ships assigned - a Singaporean LST (RSS Resolution), a Malaysian LST (KD Inderapura, a Newport LST) and of course the Danish Absalon - though i doubt any of them carry any troops.

That last action by France - as i understand it - was apparently undertaken with presumably two helos out of Djibouti, a German P-3C overhead for surveillance and one or two Malaysian ships (a F2000 and a Meko A100 in the area) supporting on the ground.

As we haven't heard anything about US assets being used against pirates, i'd presume the Blackhawks to be - like the Predators - primarily engaged in Yemen, perhaps also around Ogaden or Puntland.

 

[swerve]

Thanks kato
Are these forces assembled allowed to land forces in Somalia and take on the pirate on the ground if they make it back to land?

The government of Puntland (the source of many, perhaps most, pirate attacks) has made public statements welcoming foreign action against pirates, including attacks on them in their bases on the territory of Puntland. It publicly regrets its own inability to deal with them.

I believe the government of Puntland sees the pirates as a threat to itself. It's very weak, & they're well-armed. Foreign reduction of pirate strongholds might permit it to extend its authority over them.

I do not know the attitudes of the governments (such as they are) of Somaliland & Somalia.

However - the rules of engagement of the anti-pirate patrols are, AFAIK, more restrictive than the Puntland government would like.

 

[ROCK45]

Thanks swerve

I hope the pirates don't just move there base operations to Somaliland & Somalia. I would like to see the assets formed up to stay in place for a period of time and out last these modern terrors of the open seas.

 

[Feanor]

I just found a couple of interesting articles. In one pirates captured a Ukranian ship with 30 T-72 tanks being send over to Kenya, with spare parts and ammunition to them.

http://newsru.com/world/25sep2008/t32.html

And some Somalian pirates died of chemical burns, one month after capturing an Iranian ship. I wonder what was on that ship.

http://newsru.com/world/25sep2008/chemicals.html

 

[ROCK45]

I read on this Blog I found that they can't find the ship? So some ship is off loading 30 plus tanks and other arms and nobody knows where? Makes you think that there may be more interesting arms of some sorts on this special Ukranian stealth ship that just slips away?

What happen to all those French Mirage fighters and helicopters and a P-3 from Spain? Read the kato post a few before this one he gives a breakdown on assets nearby.

Being serious is there still just too much water to patrol even with the assets in region?

 

[StevoJH]

I read on this Blog I found that they can't find the ship? So some ship is off loading 30 plus tanks and other arms and nobody knows where? Makes you think that there may be more interesting arms of some sorts on this special Ukranian stealth ship that just slips away?

What happen to all those French Mirage fighters and helicopters and a P-3 from Spain? Read the kato post a few before this one he gives a breakdown on assets nearby.

Being serious is there still just too much water to patrol even with the assets in region?

Those P-3's and UAV's would give a lot of coverage, i don't think they'd miss much. 30 T72 tanks missing is slightly scary, considering that's half a regiments worth of tanks, even if they are outdated.

 

[Feanor]

That's one tank battallion of tanks. If we take a 3-battallion structure, then a regiment is 94 tanks. At least in the Russian/Soviet system. Given that the tanks are Soviet in origin, it would make sense to measure their numbers in the Soviet system.

 

[AegisFC]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aOIqHgAJXIlY&refer=canada
Canada is extending the deployment of the HMCS Ville de Quebec until late October. This is good since they have a decent track record against these Somali pirates.

Also apparently Russia is sending a ship as well.
http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/09/russians-deploy-to-somalia.html

 

[kato]

Isn't the Canadian ship primarily there to escort supply ships into Somalian ports, not to hunt pirates?

The Mirages in Djibouti are there as a ready reserve really. Consider that France has half a dozen fighters and 1,500 soldiers in a volatile situation only two borders northwest of Djibouti (read: patrolling the Chad/Darfur border).
As for the P-3... having 5-6 in Djibouti means 2 in the air at any time - at most, more likely one at any time. And the Somalian coast is damn long, especially as the US aircraft concentrate on the region between Puntland, Socotra and Yemen.

 

[AegisFC]

Isn't the Canadian ship primarily there to escort supply ships into Somalian ports, not to hunt pirates?

Yes, but if it was not there to escort the food shipments then the ships carrying the food would probably be attacked.
Besides the more warships in the region the better, and if a ship was attacked near the Canadians I doubt they'd ignore it.

 

[Feanor]

Yep. The Neustrashimuiy. A coastal patrol boat. It's being deployed independently of any international operations, under Russian command. It's a project 11540 frigate.

There are more details on the captured ship. It carries 33 T-72 tanks, with assorted amunition and spare parts, and a shipment of grenade launchers.

 

[Stryker001]

Launch a couple of missiles at the Bakara Market to let them know that uncle Ivan is in town.

They know who the Russians are becuase when the civilians 'holiday' ships go through the Russians are the ones that shoot back at the pirates, some time with RPG's etc.

I would send down some Spectre and Spooky gunships to take out the pirates.

 

[John Sansom]

Stryker001 has hit the nail on the head...although just a modicum of discretion should be added to his succinct advice. Perhaps the "market" should be left alone and joint Russian-NATO efforts in the area could also serve as opportunites for the development of co-operative law enforcement experience.

Yeah... perhaps. More importantly, however, effective action off Somalia should not be left to the Russians alone for obvious reasons. Vessels of other nations should be encouraged to "go hard" and not be limited to escort and observer activities.

 

[Stryker001]

The fact that people are considering going through alternate routes instead of using the Suez Canal, the problem is out of hand.

A much larger multi-national task force is need for operations, however the Russians should act outside of the current UN charter to allow more direct efforts in taking the fight up to the pirates.

All roads lead to the Bakara Market it is a trade hub so we should say hello.

I believe the PRC should also come down to operate with the Russians, so it is still a multi-national task force but without the constraints.

Also at least two private contractors are need I suggested an unnamed firm run by ex-KGB Alpha Group operators and Blackwater, be given the contracts by the UN to conduct additional operations.

Using covert civilian ships that have been fortified, will draw the pirates out into a kill zone, in which the private firms can as well as using the own firepower, call upon the Russian and PRC navies and in the case of Blackwater the US navy and current taskforce.

The Somali Government has less than impressed me.

www.blackwaterusa.com

Surgical ground strikes are required outside of what the CIA have been up to down their fighting al-Qaida and the Islamists.

 

[StevoJH]

That's one tank battallion of tanks. If we take a 3-battallion structure, then a regiment is 94 tanks. At least in the Russian/Soviet system. Given that the tanks are Soviet in origin, it would make sense to measure their numbers in the Soviet system.

British and Australian Tank regiments have 58 Tanks. When i meant half a regiment i was referring to 30 being just over half of 58.

 

[Stryker001]

British and Australian Tank regiments have 58 Tanks. When i meant half a regiment i was referring to 30 being just over half of 58.

Whatever they still are not the property of the bandits.

The real purpose of the terrorist is to have the capability to close the gulf of Aden and tie up allied naval ships. This is part of al-Quds asymmetrical warfare doctrine, which is miss named almost all warfare strategies are asymmetrical.

The al-Quds forces have the ability to close the Straits of Hormuz I should say disrupt. And have the capability to disrupt (as the shipping industry are seek the alternate route CLOSE) the Suez Canal via the Gulf of Aden. Just as Islamic Jihad are behind the embassy bombing in Yemen. Which really means al-Quds forces.

Hizbullah are in Venezuela, for the same purpose if required disrupt the Panama Canal.

 

[Stryker001]

The other part of the al-Quds strategy is hostage taking, psychological and fiscal. Its only going to get worse, the hostage taking be it in Somalia or worldwide.

 

[Feanor]

British and Australian Tank regiments have 58 Tanks. When i meant half a regiment i was referring to 30 being just over half of 58.

Those are tank regiments? Wow. Just a few questions, does Britain use a division or brigade structure? And and how many of those regiments are in an average division/brigade?

 

[Stryker001]

The so-called expert think that the tanks can't be sold or used it is beyond the capability of the Somali's, well the Afghan's manage to keep their tanks going via cannibalizing others for spare parts. Secondly the ammo can be used for IED's.

If you go down to the Bakara Market you would be able to place an order for the tanks, it is a strong hold of the militia.