Pirates

[gf0012-aust]

Which insurance companies are we talking about?

2 of the largest insurance companies in the world - including 2 of the largest passenger carrying companies in the world.

They've made it patently clear about shipboard weapons. In fact it has been an issue with a number of western countries where their Federal Maritime Services have tried to get some kind of consensus on standardising issues.

 

[Paxter]

Piracy is on the rise all across the planet. It happens everywhere from the Red Sea to Malacca Straits (Malaysia)

particulary down in South East Asian waters. Often the 'victims' are machine gunned where they stand. Stolen Vessels are repainted and later sold on the black market. Big Biz in some parts of the world.

Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia need to put aside their petty differences and come together with a solidified stance on countering and ultimately reduce the increasing number of Pirate attacks in these waters. Joint Naval and Law Enforcement coupled with maybe something like a Joint Procurement of a low-cost twin turboprop Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (Defender 4000 MPA, Beech King Air 350 MPA, F-406 Caravan II MPA, etc) to be utilized by ALL these nations to provide around the clock coverage of these dangerous waters.

Finally some sort of helo' equipped Offshore Patrol Vessel for joint procurement. Malaysia and Australia at one point in time were planning to build a joint designed OPV.

There is more to that than corruption or lack of ships. bare in mind there is over 30,000 islands + between malaysia,indonesia,thailand,singapore, and the philippines imagine western europe where 80% is under water... and its full of tropical jungles. Air patrols (which we do with singapore) we use beachcraft for those patrols btw. Are insufficiant and unable to detact them if they have landed on one of this islands. Oh to make matters worse 80% of those islands are uninhibited.

borders are also a prob as u cant just send a meko-100 into indonesia at ramming speed. Singapore navy is no doubt the best in SEA, then comes msia which btw we DO have 4 Meko-100 with another 21 being built armed with AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300. Last year we saw the creation of the malaysian coast guard to help the navy patrol the seas.

Apart from this the indonesian navy is poorly maintained due to the lack of funds, and the southern philippines is having an insurgancy.

btw malaysia dont own the whole of the malacca Straits its shared with indonesia. If they did im sure we would have put toll gates on both sides of the straits And check your data about pirate attacks in the malacca straits it has gone down by half.

 

[contedicavour]

South-East Asian Navies

There is more to that than corruption or lack of ships. bare in mind there is over 30,000 islands + between malaysia,indonesia,thailand,singapore, and the philippines imagine western europe where 80% is under water... and its full of tropical jungles. Air patrols (which we do with singapore) we use beachcraft for those patrols btw. Are insufficiant and unable to detact them if they have landed on one of this islands. Oh to make matters worse 80% of those islands are uninhibited.

borders are also a prob as u cant just send a meko-100 into indonesia at ramming speed. Singapore navy is no doubt the best in SEA, then comes msia which btw we DO have 4 Meko-100 with another 21 being built armed with AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300. Last year we saw the creation of the malaysian coast guard to help the navy patrol the seas.

Apart from this the indonesian navy is poorly maintained due to the lack of funds, and the southern philippines is having an insurgancy.

btw malaysia dont own the whole of the malacca Straits its shared with indonesia. If they did im sure we would have put toll gates on both sides of the straits And check your data about pirate attacks in the malacca straits it has gone down by half.

Interesting analysis, however I'm still amazed those navies spend more money procuring submarines or LPDs instead of reinforcing those assets more suited to defending their sea lanes. Indonesia is updating its 2 T209 subs in South Korea as we speak, Malaysia is procuring 2 Scorpene state-of-the-art SSKs, Singapore is taking 2 vastergotland SSK from the Swedish navy on top of the 4 Challengers (old ex Sjoormen Swedish SSK), and Thailand is considering acquisition... This is nonsense in terms of priority setting.
Let's just hope the new Delta (slightly smaller and modified Lafayette) FFGs will be used by Singapore to help patrol the neighbor's sea lanes... though I doubt it will ever happen.

cheers

 

[Salty Dog]

Pirates in Brazil

Pirate attacks increase in Santos

Press articles dated March 7, 2008 report that over eight days, three ships have been the targets of pirate attacks in the Port of Santos. The increasing frequency of these attacks could increase costs and hurt traffic in the port.

The two most recent attacks occurred Tuesday morning, against Brazilian and Danish flagged vessels, eight days after the first attack of the year.

On all three occasions, the pirates followed the same pattern. According to Maritime Agency Trade Association of São Paulo (SINDAMAR - Sindicato das Agências de Navegação Marítima do Estado de São Paulo) vice president José Roque, they always attack ships anchored at the approaches to the port, early in the morning, and act in groups of six to eight.

"Usually they're armed. On the last ship, they took an officer hostage."

The pirates, who act randomly, target containers. Since some are opened without anything taken, it is believed that an organized gang in involved.

The attacks have grown in number over the last two years: thirteen in 2006; nine last year.

According to Roque, the robberies generate increased costs through higher freight rates and insurance premiums, hurting the country's competiveness in the international market.

____________________________________________________________________

Sexta-Feira, 7 de Março de 2008, 20:55

Cresce número de ataques de piratas a navios

De A Tribuna On-line

Em apenas oito dias, três navios foram alvos de piratas no Porto de Santos. Os constantes ataques às embarcações podem aumentar os custos e prejudicar a movimentação.

Os dois últimos roubos foram registrados na madrugada da última terça-feira, em navios de bandeira brasileira e dinamarquesa, oito dias depois do primeiro ataque deste ano.

Nas três ocasiões, os bandidos agiram da mesma forma. Segundo José Roque, vice-presidente do Sindamar, eles sempre atacam os navios fundeados na barra, geralmente de madrugada, e atuam em grupos de seis a oito pessoas.

“Geralmente, também estão armados. No último navio, eles fizeram refém o oficial ”, cometa Roque.

Os contêineres são os alvos dos piratas, que atacam de forma aleatória. Como alguns são abertos sem que nada seja levado, acredita-se que se trate de uma quadrilha organizada.

Os ataques passaram a ser mais frequentes nos dois últimos anos. Em 2006, 13 navios foram alvos de ladrões, contra nove no ano passado.

Aumento de custos

De acordo com Roque, os roubos geram mais custos, em decorrência da elevação do frete marítimo, além do aumento das franquias do seguro, podendo prejudicar a competitividade do País no mercado internacional. As informações são da TV Tribuna.

 

[alexsa]

You may find this interesting:

2008 piracy map (to date)

http://www.icc-ccs.org/extra/display.php?yr=2008

and weekly piracy report

http://www.icc-ccs.org/images/buttons/piracy-anim.gif

 

[Salty Dog]

You may find this interesting:

2008 piracy map (to date)

http://www.icc-ccs.org/extra/display.php?yr=2008

and weekly piracy report

http://www.icc-ccs.org/images/buttons/piracy-anim.gif

Thank you Alexsa! This a very useful website.

Cheers!

 

[gf0012-aust]

It's an excellent site. My daughter does security on cruise ships via the med and east africa, and she's always using data from them for updates.

she was on one of the ships that was RPG'd last year.

 

[Lostfleet]

There are a lot of people who are suggesting adding weapons to merchant shipping. Whatever you get on a ship, M60, CIWS, Harpoon or even a platoon of ex-military operatives, it will just be a temporary solution. Pirates will just get armed better for the next time.

If we look at the 17th century piracy in the Carribean, merchant shipping had cannons and all other sort of weapons on board but it did not help that much to prevent piracy.

There are long-terim solutions like improving economies in the pirate infested areas and having better organization of the improved security forces.

However for the short term solutions well, this is going to sound extremely silly and a lot of you are going to argue that it is economically a failure, but bring back the good old convoy system. Not neccessarily with a military escort, but let a few ships travel together.

 

[alexsa]

There are a lot of people who are suggesting adding weapons to merchant shipping. Whatever you get on a ship, M60, CIWS, Harpoon or even a platoon of ex-military operatives, it will just be a temporary solution. Pirates will just get armed better for the next time.

If we look at the 17th century piracy in the Carribean, merchant shipping had cannons and all other sort of weapons on board but it did not help that much to prevent piracy.

There are long-terim solutions like improving economies in the pirate infested areas and having better organization of the improved security forces.

However for the short term solutions well, this is going to sound extremely silly and a lot of you are going to argue that it is economically a failure, but bring back the good old convoy system. Not neccessarily with a military escort, but let a few ships travel together.

A lot of suggestion but not much official support for the mainstream cargo vessels (it is a bit different for PAX vessels). The sheer number of ships will preclude the arming of all of them and to be blundly honest most crews wouel more of a hazard to them selves if given guns and the number of 'operatives' will have a very significant econmoic impact.

Improving the econmoics will be a very long term solution, if achiveable. Most of the burgeoning developing economies are not providng benifits for a large proportion of the population (causing a large degree of resentment and coruption which all contribute to the pirate problem). Escorted convoys are not an option, however, the solution does rest in maritime policing of the pirate zones. Building up these abilities for national forces in territorial water and removing pursuit restrictions in contigous zones by any international warships will help. However, on the latter point it would be better if the ships doing the patrolling and chasing of areas such as the Malacca Strait were not USN as this would be seen as interferacne even though such action would be entirley justifed.

 

[gf0012-aust]

There are a lot of people who are suggesting adding weapons to merchant shipping. Whatever you get on a ship, M60, CIWS, Harpoon or even a platoon of ex-military operatives, it will just be a temporary solution. Pirates will just get armed better for the next time.

They're not allowed to carry lethal weapons on the majority of recognised fleets.

They do however have other solutions, and thats not an item for discussion in here.

 

[Lostfleet]

I remember reading an article I think it was in New York Times back about piracy in 2000, they talked how the pirates operated, took over ships added new registiration and etc but they also talked about a Private Military Company that offer protection to ships. ( they would storm in when a call came in, where the ship was located)

do you guys know anything about this?

 

[gvg]

For information on piracy you can also look at the site of the International Maritime Organization.

The information about piracy starts here: http://www.imo.org/Facilitation/mainframe.asp?topic_id=362

 

[gf0012-aust]

I remember reading an article I think it was in New York Times back about piracy in 2000, they talked how the pirates operated, took over ships added new registiration and etc but they also talked about a Private Military Company that offer protection to ships. ( they would storm in when a call came in, where the ship was located)

do you guys know anything about this?

There's a UK owned company that does specials and operates out of Singapore. Staff vary with routes, but core operators are ex ghurkas and usually ex-RM team leaders.

The number of effective companies that do this kind of work is less than the number of fingers on one hand. There are quite a few dodgey ones.

 

[Salty Dog]

For information on piracy you can also look at the site of the International Maritime Organization.

The information about piracy starts here: http://www.imo.org/Facilitation/mainframe.asp?topic_id=362

What about actions against offshore oil rigs or platforms? Can these be classified as piracy or terrorist acts?

 

[Lostfleet]

There's a UK owned company that does specials and operates out of Singapore. Staff vary with routes, but core operators are ex ghurkas and usually ex-RM team leaders.

The number of effective companies that do this kind of work is less than the number of fingers on one hand. There are quite a few dodgey ones.

I guess piracy is an issue with its own 9/11 bound to happen, like a big tanker or a cruise ship blowing up with mass casualites, only after than people are going to take it as a serious threat and take actions to prevent it.

 

[gvg]

What about actions against offshore oil rigs or platforms? Can these be classified as piracy or terrorist acts?

My personal opinion is that it depends on the motives of those taking these actions.

But I now very little about piracy, I just came across the website on another forum that discussed the deployment of HNLMS Evertsen to Somalia to protect ships from the UN World Food Program. There was some nice info on it, so I thought i'd share it here.

 

[gf0012-aust]

What about actions against offshore oil rigs or platforms? Can these be classified as piracy or terrorist acts?

I think its regarded as an act of terrorism. Most facilities in vulnerable areas have contingencies. They certainly do in the Gulf.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I guess piracy is an issue with its own 9/11 bound to happen, like a big tanker or a cruise ship blowing up with mass casualites, only after than people are going to take it as a serious threat and take actions to prevent it.

It's been taken seriously ever since the Achille Lauro. A significant number of modern militaries escalated their relationships with SAS after Achille Lauro to develop their own water capability.

My daughter says that they constantly have specwarrie and special police training ops occurring on ferry jobs ..... She's got quite a few happy snaps of her with the water, police and commando teams from over a dozen countries.

 

[lobbie111]

I remember hearing of an incident where a bunch of Ex British SAS commandoes decided to go sailing around the world and they were attacked by a group of pirates...Needless to say those priates will never mess with that ship, I heard that one of the Ex-Comandoes managed to gain control of one of the pirates small craft and was shooting the pirates RPG-7's at the other pirate vessels...

 

[weasel1962]

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