Marlin AIP SSK

[griffinoo]

What is the diameter of Babur 2?

same as Babur-1 0.52 m.

 

[aaaditya]

same as Babur-1 0.52 m.

whats the length of babar 2?

if it is the same as babar 1 ,then does it mean that pakistan is using a new engine or a new fuel?

 

[griffinoo]

whats the length of babar 2?
if it is the same as babar 1 ,then does it mean that pakistan is using a new engine or a new fuel?

i belive they will be using a new improved engine with a new boster aswell..

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out this dcn link,it contains detailed information on various dcn projects ,including the mistral and the marlin.

india is interested in acquiring the mistral class ,however these plans are still at a concept stage ,with indian ship builder grse studying the project for possible transfer of technology(upto 6 may be acquired).

the marlin class of submarines to be derived from the scorpene (combat management system and propulsion system) and the project barracuda (manouverability systems) has interested pakistan.though iam not sure what is the pakistani requirement(number of submarines required?).

here is the link:

http://euronaval.dcn-group.com/pdf/II - Prime contracting.pdf

 

[SABRE]

Thanks to Euronaval at Bourget (Paris) there are now more accurate data on this Marlin.
First of all, the Marlin is for export only, and is sold separately from Spain, contrary to the Scorpene which is a bi-national product. It could be in competition with the Spanish S80.
75m long, 1850 tonnes, it has a MESMA AIP system almost identical to the one first installed on the Pakistani Hamza (Agosta A90B class).
When the SSK is patrolling it can use its diesel submarines : these are apparently more powerful than those of the U212A class, and are a key selling argument used by the DCN folks.
The only visible external difference with the Scorpene is the St Andrew's cross - like end of the sub ("barres de plongées" in French, if someone can translate this properly ?)
Systems-wise, the Marlin will use SUBTICS integrated combat information system and the same SM39 and torpedoes as the Scorpene.
DCN insists the Marlin is in no way a replacement of the Scorpene, though honestly I'm doubtful...
First order is expected June 2007 from Pakistan.

source : information gathered at Euronaval.

cheers

The Pakistani Agosta-90Bs use MESMA-AIP, SUBTICS integrated combat information system, Exocet SM39 Missiles (it can also carry 16 Harpoon Missiles). So the above information only tells that the "Merlin" is almost same as the "Agosta-90Bs" for the Pakistan Navy. Surelly there is great amount of information not being told. We'll have to wait till 2007 to see the final picture of Merlin.

I think the Merlin's feature will vary & depend on the requirements of the buyer country. So you'll have to wait till some one buys it. Current potential buyer only seems to be Pakistan Navy.

 

[aaaditya]

The Pakistani Agosta-90Bs use MESMA-AIP, SUBTICS integrated combat information system, Exocet SM39 Missiles (it can also carry 16 Harpoon Missiles). So the above information only tells that the "Merlin" is almost same as the "Agosta-90Bs" for the Pakistan Navy. Surelly there is great amount of information not being told. We'll have to wait till 2007 to see the final picture of Merlin.

I think the Merlin's feature will vary & depend on the requirements of the buyer country. So you'll have to wait till some one buys it. Current potential buyer only seems to be Pakistan Navy.

marlin will have superior manouverability than either the scorpene or the agosta90b due to the saint andrew's cross configuration of its tail planes(rudders).

however indian scorpenes are also believed to be pretty different beasts with considerable modifications from the standard scorpene design.

 

[aaaditya]

hey contedicavour,recently the italian deputy defence minister visited india ,he stated that italy would help india in developing the combat management system for the indigenous aircraft carrier,would give india transfer of technology for the oto-melara 127mm guns.

he also invited india for joint,design and development of submarine and also stated that both countries are also cooperating on advanced warships and frigates.

can you provide me any information or links on the combat management systems on the cavour,the oto-melara 127mm gun ,also any current or proposed italian warship and frigate programmes,italian oceanographic research vessel programmes.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2373565&C=asiapac

Italy, a limited supplier of military equipment to India, has proposed the two countries join forces to develop defense products.
During a Nov. 15-16 visit here, Lorenzo Forceri, Italian deputy defense minister, said the two governments have decided to turn their 2003 memorandum of understanding on transfer of defense equipment, technical assistance and defense industrial cooperation into a formal agreement, which is likely to be signed shortly.
“Italy has proposed [to] the Indian government to finalize government-to-government agreements to cooperate with India on specific [defense] programs,” Forceri said following talks with M.M. Pallam Raju, Indian deputy defense minister.
One such program could be the joint development of combat systems for the Air Defence Ship (ADS), India’s indigenous aircraft carrier, which is being built with technical help from Italy. Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri, besides building the ship’s propulsion system, is helping the Indian Navy design the ADS and acting as a consultant.
“If India comes up with its specific additional submarine requirements,” Forceri said, “Italy will always be ready to offer to work as a partner in designing, developing and producing the submarines.”
Another area where the two countries can work together is the joint production of 127/64mm canons for Indian Navy warships and other small frigates, Forceri said. India’s state-owned Bharat Heavy Electrical is currently manufacturing 76/62 naval guns for Navy vessels under technology transferred from Italy’s Oto Melara.
Italy and India also are cooperating on a number of other defense programs, including an oceanographic survey vessel, maritime patrol aircraft, heavyweight torpedoes for submarines, anti-submarine helicopters for the Indian Navy, and advanced warships and frigates, Forceri said.

 

[contedicavour]

Yes I was aware of Forcieri's visit to India.

I'll try to answer your questions. Regarding the combat integration system, Alenia Marconi System (Finmeccanica group) is in charge of the control systems for guidance of the guns & missiles, "data bus" suites linking all radars and sensors (including the new IRST ones), IFF, Link 16, etc.
The system is also capable of guiding a complex amphibious landing force.
By the way, the system is very similar to that installed on the Doria Horizon AAW destroyers, based on EMPAR radars and Aster SAMs.
It's hard to catch more details since this is the most secret part of the ship. I remember seeing the Garibaldi's and it was an impressive array of tens of computer screens tracking anything above, on, and below water.

The Oto Melara (Finmeccanica Group) 127/64 LW gun is the ultimate long range naval gun, with guided ammunition (radio/GPS) of the "Vulcano" system and range of 90 km. The system is being finalized now, so it isn't operational yet.

The proposed surface ship designs to date are FREMM and Comandanti OPVH designs. I've written a lot of posts on both, but if you have any specific questions don't hesitate. Regarding oceanographic and research vessels, I'll add the pics below.


cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Regarding your other questions, we have 3 types of ships capable of running oceanographic surveys,

> the Magnaghi dedicated ship a 1750 tonnes 82 meters long ship with all sorts of sonars and remote controlled drones

> the new Aretusa light dedicated ships (trimaran design) - 415 tonnes 40 meters ships used to renew the cartography of the seas around Italy and beyond.

> the Elettra spy ship (similar to a ship built for NATO and to one for India IIRC building as we speak), brand new 3000 tonnes 95 meters long ship mostly dedicated to EW tasks but probably also equipped for underwater research.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Regarding your other questions, we have 3 types of ships capable of running oceanographic surveys,

> the Magnaghi dedicated ship a 1750 tonnes 82 meters long ship with all sorts of sonars and remote controlled drones

> the new Aretusa light dedicated ships (trimaran design) - 415 tonnes 40 meters ships used to renew the cartography of the seas around Italy and beyond.

> the Elettra spy ship (similar to a ship built for NATO and to one for India IIRC building as we speak), brand new 3000 tonnes 95 meters long ship mostly dedicated to EW tasks but probably also equipped for underwater research.

cheers

thanks very much for the above information,i have one more request ,can you provde any link ,info or images on the russo-italian s1000 submarine project,also can you give the link for the otomelara website,iam particularly interested in their 76mm,127mm and 30mm guns.

 

[contedicavour]

thanks very much for the above information,i have one more request ,can you provde any link ,info or images on the russo-italian s1000 submarine project,also can you give the link for the otomelara website,iam particularly interested in their 76mm,127mm and 30mm guns.

Enjoy, it's in English

http://www.otomelara.it/products/products.asp

Regarding S1000 unfortunately I don't have anything beyond what I wrote in posts # 12 and 17 in this thread.

cheers

 

[SATAN]

however indian scorpenes are also believed to be pretty different beasts with considerable modifications from the standard scorpene design.

It is rather amusing to notice your usual pea brained attempts to bring your indiaa into every discussion on this forum , but this is a thread on the MARLIN SSK in case you dont have your glasses on.

Also, if you cant provide links to prove your "claims" mentioned above by you , why blurt out such random and fairy tale statements ?

 

[SATAN]

The Pakistani Agosta-90Bs use MESMA-AIP, SUBTICS integrated combat information system, Exocet SM39 Missiles (it can also carry 16 Harpoon Missiles). So the above information only tells that the "Merlin" is almost same as the "Agosta-90Bs" for the Pakistan Navy. Surelly there is great amount of information not being told. We'll have to wait till 2007 to see the final picture of Merlin.

I think the Merlin's feature will vary & depend on the requirements of the buyer country. So you'll have to wait till some one buys it. Current potential buyer only seems to be Pakistan Navy.

The "MARLIN SSK" has been marketed to Pakistan as a launch customer. Other potential buyers include Saudi Arabia and Egypt which cancelled a planned purchase of the Dutch "Morray" class submarines and also to maintain a naval balance with Israel's purchase of 2 more Dolphin class SSK from Germany to supplement the 3 they already have in active duty.

 

[Betasys]

thanks very much for the above information,i have one more request ,can you provde any link ,info or images on the russo-italian s1000 submarine project,also can you give the link for the otomelara website,iam particularly interested in their 76mm,127mm and 30mm guns.

Regarding S1000 unfortunately I don't have anything beyond what I wrote in posts # 12 and 17 in this thread.
cheers

I posted a link to an article about the S1000 in the "Italy, Russia to jointly develop SSKs." thread. The model displayed at Euronaval, and presumably the chosen design, resembles closely the Amur 950.

 

[aaaditya]

I posted a link to an article about the S1000 in the "Italy, Russia to jointly develop SSKs." thread. The model displayed at Euronaval, and presumably the chosen design, resembles closely the Amur 950.

thanks very much for the information buddy.