Hezbollah landforces
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radiosilence
jints
this might be what you ^ were refering to.
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/topst...-32/1154725175207720.xml&storylist=topstories
Missiles neutralizing Israeli tanks
8/4/2006, 4:50 p.m. CT
By BENJAMIN HARVEY
The Associated Press
JERUSALEM (AP) — Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.
Experts say this is further evidence that Israel is facing a well-equipped army in this war, not a ragtag militia.
Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.
In the last two days alone, these missiles have killed seven soldiers and damaged three Israeli-made Merkava tanks — mountains of steel that are vaunted as symbols of Israel's military might, the army said. Israeli media say most of the 44 soldiers killed in four weeks of fighting were hit by anti-tank missiles.
"They (Hezbollah guerrillas) have some of the most advanced anti-tank missiles in the world," said Yossi Kuperwasser, a senior military intelligence officer who retired earlier this summer.
"This is not a militia, it's an infantry brigade with all the support units," Kuperwasser said.
Israel contends that Hezbollah gets almost all of its weaponry from Syria and by extension Iran, including its anti-tank missiles.
That's why cutting off the supply chain is essential — and why fighting Hezbollah after it has spent six years building up its arsenal is proving so painful to Israel, officials say.
Israel's Merkava tanks boast massive amounts of armor and lumber and resemble fortresses on tracks. They are built for crew survival, according to Globalsecurity.org, a Washington-based military think tank.
Hezbollah celebrates when it destroys one.
"A Zionist armored force tried to advance toward the village of Chihine. The holy warriors confronted it and destroyed two Merkava tanks," the group proclaimed on television Thursday.
The Israeli army confirmed two attacks on Merkava tanks that day — one that killed three soldiers and the other killing one. The three soldiers who were killed on Friday were also killed by anti-tank missiles, the army said.
It would not say whether the missiles disabled the tanks.
"To the best of my understanding, they (Hezbollah) are as well-equipped as any standing unit in the Syrian or Iranian armies," said Eran Lerman, a retired army colonel and now director of the Israel/Middle East office of the American Jewish Committee. "This is not a rat-pack guerrilla, this is an organized militia."
Besides the anti-tank missiles, Hezbollah is also known to have a powerful rocket-propelled grenade known as the RPG29. These weapons are also smuggled through Syria, an Israeli security official said, and were previously used by Palestinian militants in Gaza to damage tanks.
On Friday, Jane's Defense Weekly, a defense industry magazine, reported that Hezbollah asked Iran for "a constant supply of weapons" to support its operations against Israel.
The report cited Western diplomatic sources as saying that Iranian authorities promised Hezbollah a steady supply of weapons "for the next stage of the confrontation."
Top Israeli intelligence officials say they have seen Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers on the ground with Hezbollah troops. They say that permission to fire Hezbollah's longer-range missiles, such as those could reach Tel Aviv, would likely require Iranian go-ahead.
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/topst...-32/1154725175207720.xml&storylist=topstories
Missiles neutralizing Israeli tanks
8/4/2006, 4:50 p.m. CT
By BENJAMIN HARVEY
The Associated Press
JERUSALEM (AP) — Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.
Experts say this is further evidence that Israel is facing a well-equipped army in this war, not a ragtag militia.
Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.
In the last two days alone, these missiles have killed seven soldiers and damaged three Israeli-made Merkava tanks — mountains of steel that are vaunted as symbols of Israel's military might, the army said. Israeli media say most of the 44 soldiers killed in four weeks of fighting were hit by anti-tank missiles.
"They (Hezbollah guerrillas) have some of the most advanced anti-tank missiles in the world," said Yossi Kuperwasser, a senior military intelligence officer who retired earlier this summer.
"This is not a militia, it's an infantry brigade with all the support units," Kuperwasser said.
Israel contends that Hezbollah gets almost all of its weaponry from Syria and by extension Iran, including its anti-tank missiles.
That's why cutting off the supply chain is essential — and why fighting Hezbollah after it has spent six years building up its arsenal is proving so painful to Israel, officials say.
Israel's Merkava tanks boast massive amounts of armor and lumber and resemble fortresses on tracks. They are built for crew survival, according to Globalsecurity.org, a Washington-based military think tank.
Hezbollah celebrates when it destroys one.
"A Zionist armored force tried to advance toward the village of Chihine. The holy warriors confronted it and destroyed two Merkava tanks," the group proclaimed on television Thursday.
The Israeli army confirmed two attacks on Merkava tanks that day — one that killed three soldiers and the other killing one. The three soldiers who were killed on Friday were also killed by anti-tank missiles, the army said.
It would not say whether the missiles disabled the tanks.
"To the best of my understanding, they (Hezbollah) are as well-equipped as any standing unit in the Syrian or Iranian armies," said Eran Lerman, a retired army colonel and now director of the Israel/Middle East office of the American Jewish Committee. "This is not a rat-pack guerrilla, this is an organized militia."
Besides the anti-tank missiles, Hezbollah is also known to have a powerful rocket-propelled grenade known as the RPG29. These weapons are also smuggled through Syria, an Israeli security official said, and were previously used by Palestinian militants in Gaza to damage tanks.
On Friday, Jane's Defense Weekly, a defense industry magazine, reported that Hezbollah asked Iran for "a constant supply of weapons" to support its operations against Israel.
The report cited Western diplomatic sources as saying that Iranian authorities promised Hezbollah a steady supply of weapons "for the next stage of the confrontation."
Top Israeli intelligence officials say they have seen Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers on the ground with Hezbollah troops. They say that permission to fire Hezbollah's longer-range missiles, such as those could reach Tel Aviv, would likely require Iranian go-ahead.
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In 1 month of fighting all the idf has done is kill civilians. If u read the count of dead hezbollah fighters its less than 40. While hezbollah has killed about 45 idf soldiers. U keep hearing the idf has control of most of the southern cities whice is false. Hezbollah is giving what ppl say is the 4th strongest army in the world a battle. I dont see israel winning this war.
Israelis say that they want to pull Hisbollah north of Litani river so their cities to be out of range of Hisbollahs rockets. It seems that Hisbollah possesses rockets that can hit their cities easy and from the north of Litani river. What will they do?? Capture the whole country and make whole Lebanon territory a buffer and demilitirised zone?? With their stupid policy they devastate the most pro-western and democratic arabic state Lebanon and they strengthen in political means a para-military organization such Hisbollah which now in the eyes of the whole Lebanese (muslims, christians 40% of population) and the other Arabs is a symbol of resistance against Israelis.
zainulhuda
New Member
"Even the IRA a very successful terrorist organisation which has survived for over 40 years in a very small area, was heavly compromised by the time a ceasefire was declared.
Is it a Lebonese thing or just a Shia Lebonese thing? What ever they are the poorest community in the Lebanon, and the poor always make the toughest soldiers."
I am not an expert on the Northern Ireland conflict, but from what I know, the Brits focused primarily on diplomatic pressure and negotiations, rather than utilizing their military advantage and resorting to mass bombings. I never heard of Dublin being leveled in the search for IRA members. The Israeli approach of using overwhelming force (and collective punishment) results in massive civilian casualties. There were 18000 Lebanese civilians killed by Israel and the Militia it backed the last time it was in Lebanon. Those wounds and memories are hard to forget. In my opinion, the Israeli method of trying to beat the Arabs into submission has not worked and does not look like doing anything except motivating even more recruits for Hezbullah and Hamas. When such a high percentage of the population (civilian and guerilla) has suffered so much, it is going to be very, very difficult to compromise an organization that projects their anger and passion onto the “enemy”.
Is it a Lebonese thing or just a Shia Lebonese thing? What ever they are the poorest community in the Lebanon, and the poor always make the toughest soldiers."
I am not an expert on the Northern Ireland conflict, but from what I know, the Brits focused primarily on diplomatic pressure and negotiations, rather than utilizing their military advantage and resorting to mass bombings. I never heard of Dublin being leveled in the search for IRA members. The Israeli approach of using overwhelming force (and collective punishment) results in massive civilian casualties. There were 18000 Lebanese civilians killed by Israel and the Militia it backed the last time it was in Lebanon. Those wounds and memories are hard to forget. In my opinion, the Israeli method of trying to beat the Arabs into submission has not worked and does not look like doing anything except motivating even more recruits for Hezbullah and Hamas. When such a high percentage of the population (civilian and guerilla) has suffered so much, it is going to be very, very difficult to compromise an organization that projects their anger and passion onto the “enemy”.
They were very different situations, both the british and Irish goverments were allies and oppossed the IRA politically and militarally. But your right, by and large the british goverment was proportional in its responces to the IRA, and as time went on built up a relationship at many levels with the IRA and thier political supporters, which made a peace deal possible.
The Israeli's have not been proportional in any way in this or other conflicts in the last 20 years and its been amazingly counter productive to there security, not to mention there neighbours. I'm a beliver that if a state is born in violence it is very hard to break out of that cycle, violent reaction is deeply embedded in the Israeli culture, it is very hard for them to come up with a more creative solution to there security problems.
The professionalism of the Israeli army is slowly pushing Hezbollah back, slowly unearthing military caches, and slowly destroying them. One of the reasons why no one really knows who is a civilian and who is a soldier of Hezbollah may have something to do with Hezbollah's total unconcern about following the accords of the Geneva Convention. There is a difference between professional soldiers and thugs. For starters, professional soldiers are distinctively dressed, thugs aren't.
Thugs may damage a warship, shoot down a fighter, and fire thousands of rockets killing innocent civilians, but thugs hardly ever win a strategic victory. Slowly but effectively, Israel is winning the strategic war, whether or not it has the support or favor of the Muslim world. As in the past, the confused Muslim world does not understand military tactics, strategic goals, or the accords of the Geneva convention. They will cheer the spillage of any Israeli blood, period. And follow anyone who does!
Hezbollah is not a nation, its a religious sect. Hezbollah has decided to invoke an international conflict, although it is not a nation. Hezbollah does not have a seat at the United Nations, as it doesn't qualify for one. Hezbollah isn't really a political party either, although it attempts to act as a party and a nation. The prime minister of the Isle of Man has more authority than the leader of the Hezbollah's thugs.
Thugs may damage a warship, shoot down a fighter, and fire thousands of rockets killing innocent civilians, but thugs hardly ever win a strategic victory. Slowly but effectively, Israel is winning the strategic war, whether or not it has the support or favor of the Muslim world. As in the past, the confused Muslim world does not understand military tactics, strategic goals, or the accords of the Geneva convention. They will cheer the spillage of any Israeli blood, period. And follow anyone who does!
Hezbollah is not a nation, its a religious sect. Hezbollah has decided to invoke an international conflict, although it is not a nation. Hezbollah does not have a seat at the United Nations, as it doesn't qualify for one. Hezbollah isn't really a political party either, although it attempts to act as a party and a nation. The prime minister of the Isle of Man has more authority than the leader of the Hezbollah's thugs.
There are four Conventions, and three Protocols of the Geneva Convention. Have you read them? You'll notice that the United States refused to sign the first protocol, the reason being the distinctive clothing issue. Its America's opinion that allowing civilian clothing for international conflicts will harm more civilians! Apparently, America is correct. You'll also notice that in the two wars America has waged since the adoption of Protocol One, both Iraq and Afghanistan, also refused to sign.
The first protocol involves international conflicts. The second protocol involves wars of liberation inside a nations boundaries. The third protocol involves the red crystal emblems of the Red Cross and Red Crescent among others.
In Lebanon, a guerilla war is being waged against another nation, both nations are members of the United Nations. The rockets are being fired over the border. This conflict is not a war of liberation, otherwise the Lebanese army and its government would be the target. This conflict can only be labeled as international. Protocol 2 does not apply.
Every professional army uses distinctive dress. The soldiers have ranks and serial numbers. Unprofessional armies don't. If you are upset I used the word thug, please insert in the previous post unprofessional army.
Geneva Convention Protocol 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I
US reasons why not to ratify Protocol 1:
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1987/012987b.htm
The first protocol involves international conflicts. The second protocol involves wars of liberation inside a nations boundaries. The third protocol involves the red crystal emblems of the Red Cross and Red Crescent among others.
In Lebanon, a guerilla war is being waged against another nation, both nations are members of the United Nations. The rockets are being fired over the border. This conflict is not a war of liberation, otherwise the Lebanese army and its government would be the target. This conflict can only be labeled as international. Protocol 2 does not apply.
Every professional army uses distinctive dress. The soldiers have ranks and serial numbers. Unprofessional armies don't. If you are upset I used the word thug, please insert in the previous post unprofessional army.
Geneva Convention Protocol 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I
US reasons why not to ratify Protocol 1:
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1987/012987b.htm
why dont you apply the geneva conventions to IDF actions during the last 4 weeks if your so keen on them? Hmmmm?
Destroying power stations, bridges, Rescue workers, baby food foctorys, aid convoys, peace keepers, airports?
Hmmmm???
Alls fair in love and war?
IDF operatives routinely wear civilian clothing when carrying out special operations.
Hezzbullah gurrillias use body armour, como gear in the field dude there an army wheater you like it or not, I dont know what you read but its not giving the full facts. Dont you even listen to the IDF staements?
Destroying power stations, bridges, Rescue workers, baby food foctorys, aid convoys, peace keepers, airports?
Hmmmm???
Alls fair in love and war?
IDF operatives routinely wear civilian clothing when carrying out special operations.
Hezzbullah gurrillias use body armour, como gear in the field dude there an army wheater you like it or not, I dont know what you read but its not giving the full facts. Dont you even listen to the IDF staements?
The American War of independence? what do you think the American army was wearing for most of the conflict?
The Israeli war of Independence what do you think the boys who were bombing the british in Palistine were wearing?
Irish war of Independence i can tell you we werent wearing mufti dude.
But I guess those were thugs hiding behind civilians who wanted there own people to die just to spite there enemy.
The Israeli war of Independence what do you think the boys who were bombing the british in Palistine were wearing?
Irish war of Independence i can tell you we werent wearing mufti dude.
But I guess those were thugs hiding behind civilians who wanted there own people to die just to spite there enemy.
Lets just have a look at what history tells us. From 1982 to 2000 the Israels occupied the sotuh of Lebanon. Dur ing this period they did not manage to wipe out Hizbollah. Because of too much losses, costs and trouble they left after 18 years.
Do you really think it is a fact that IDF is going to win this "war"?
Do you really think it is a fact that IDF is going to win this "war"?
contedicavour
New Member
I think the IDF could force the Hezbollah to retreat farther away from the Israeli border, but only if the army intervenes massively and reoccupies a significant part of southern Lebanon. Air bombardments and occasional hit-and-run missions by helicopter or even by land convoys will never manage to destroy all the secret military installations Hezbollah has hidden in hundreds of places...Waylander said:
Now, what such a large-scale land invasion would imply, it is easy to imagine... short term chaos in moderate Arab countries (with street protests requesting intervention against Israel) and long term occupation of a foreign country. Btw, this logic also implies reoccupying Gaza...
Israel can only get peace if it can negotiate with strong neighbors. Egypt and Jordan have signed peace agreements, but Syria hasn't. It is in Syria's best interest to preserve the political void in southern Lebanon to keep up pressure on Israel.
Bottomline, somebody has to help the Lebanese government to reoccupy its own south, and somebody has to help the Palestinian government to do the same in Gaza. Or may be just hand the keys to Egypt, at least it would be able to control Gaza
The First Convention was in 1854, a long time after the American Revolutionary War. Never the less, Amerian soldiers wore blue coats for the major battles.
It appears Israel made a mistake the last time, pulling its troops out of Lebanon hoping for a Oslo Peace Process. Unfortunately, I doubt Israel will pull out again, unless there is a bona fide UN force disarming Hezbollah. Otherwise, its in Israel's interest to either stay put, or if the decision is to leave, bulldoze the entire area to leave the area as inshospitable and mine the area throughly. I believe its called in international terms a demilitarized zone. Ask Korea.
Once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me.
It appears Israel made a mistake the last time, pulling its troops out of Lebanon hoping for a Oslo Peace Process. Unfortunately, I doubt Israel will pull out again, unless there is a bona fide UN force disarming Hezbollah. Otherwise, its in Israel's interest to either stay put, or if the decision is to leave, bulldoze the entire area to leave the area as inshospitable and mine the area throughly. I believe its called in international terms a demilitarized zone. Ask Korea.
Once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me.
Didnt half of the American Soldier dirng those years were Militia? from what i know the British used the same tactics as the Israelis.. Burning their way through... but of course they had more of a professional army the the Israelis even with a couple hundred years shy of any modern weapons..
Hezbollah land forces, I think it's hard to estimate how many they are. Their ranks can be boosted or reduced really fast. Basically if you have a weapon you can be considered a Hezbollah soldier by IDF, drop your weapon and you are a civilian. It is impossible to know the full extent of their size. Advance weaponary? I always find it amusing that no devellopped country with modern weapons fought another with advance weapons. When driving a tank, you must remember you can be killed by anti-tank missiles, you should never take for granted the ennemy only has Ak-47's. The strength of the Hezbollah is not in it's weapons, but the tactics.
Has any war ever followed the Geneva Conventions? This is not the 19th century with rows of musquets/rifles pointed at each other... Red Coats don't offer the camouflage needed. The uniforms are primarily used to tell friends from foe, same uniform is friend and anythnig else, civilivan clothes, different uniform is foe. To think about it, the money developped countries spend on camo for urban warefare doesn't beat a pair of jeans and a t-shirt... the Hezbollah has better camo then the IDF...
Has any war ever followed the Geneva Conventions? This is not the 19th century with rows of musquets/rifles pointed at each other... Red Coats don't offer the camouflage needed. The uniforms are primarily used to tell friends from foe, same uniform is friend and anythnig else, civilivan clothes, different uniform is foe. To think about it, the money developped countries spend on camo for urban warefare doesn't beat a pair of jeans and a t-shirt... the Hezbollah has better camo then the IDF...