The most advanced Air Forces today?

[Wall83]

So the most advanced and most powerfull air force today is offcourse the US Airforce but after that? Sure if you look at numbers the russians are still in a good second place but how advanced are the russian military aircaft at present? The the most modern fighter (that has been produced in more then 10 ex) is the Su-27 that was designed in the early 1980s, in comparement with the soon to be 230 Su-30MKI Indian fighters they are far behind. China does also have fighters in large numbers but like the russians (even worse relly) the still rely on old planes like the F-7 (MiG-21), they have the Su-30MKK/2 and J-10 but not in very big numbers yet.
Then we have the european air forces like the Royal air force and the French and German air forces. The have some relly advanced and modern aircrafts like the Eurofighter and the Raphale, but like the Chines they dont have any of them in large numbers.

Lets split this up.
1: After the USAF what is the most powerfull Air Force today?
2: Who has the strongest Air Force in 2025?

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

hmm well russian pilots recieve less flight hours then their chinese counterparts, so dunno about capability and readness their. so china has 400 modern (J-10, J-11(Su-27), Su-30, JH-7A), 200 Semi modern (J-8), and about 400-500 obsolete (J-7). So its not great but not to terrible. china airforces are alright. in 2025, usaf will loose it if it keeps on running borrowed money, their account is depleted and in serious debt. Russia, China might get it, depends who has a larger military budget. EU, not a country.

 

[Feanor]

Guys this thread is very close to a vs. thread. I'm going to let it run for now, but don't turn this into a nationalistic pissing contest. Thanks.

 

[dragonfire]

If not by sheer size and rather also by kills scored, training imparted, fighters and support aircraft then one cannot easily forget the Israeli Air Force, they are pretty good; also countries like Turkey, UAE cannot be ignored based on the modern aircraft in their respective inventories as well as acquisition programmes.

Also I doubt it if in 2025 the USAF will lose its numero uno position - highly unlikely

 

[bd1]

i would argue that after USAF the second most capable would be USN.

even American Navy has an army that has an air force that would be pretty high up on the list.

 

[Wall83]

Then we have other airforces like the Swedes with thier ~150 Gripen fighters. I agree that the USAF probably will be alot weaker in 2025, but then if the Russians doesnt start to shape up in the next 5-10 years they wont be much of a threat. No I would think that China and India will compet for the number one air force. But sure the USAF would still be a big contender.

 

[Gremlin29]

There's a huge differnece between most advanced, and most powerful. One, is not a requirement of the other.

From a technological standpoint ie most advanced, if the US stopped ALL R&D today, they would still be the most technologically advanced in 2025 by virute of the F-22 and F-35. It's taken nearly that long (14 years) to field an operational squadron of the F-22's and that's AFTER a flying prototype was created. There's no prototype in the world now that has the potential to compete against F-22.

From a power standpoint, that's going to depend on the economic future. Between the US Air Force and US Navy I don't see the possibility of any one country achieving superiority in power either.

Of course the US could go under economically like the Soviets and lose that prestige and if that happens, I would look to the Russians (if they prosper economically) or the Chinese to take the crown. I think the Russians have more potential and would be my bet but who knows?

 

[Bang-Bang]

I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....:vamp

 

[Wall83]

I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....:vamp

True, the oldest fighter in the Indian Air Force by 2020 will be 4+ generation aircrafts. They also will have fighters in great numbers. If you look at Russia the probably will have 4+ - 5th generations fighters as well but not in very large numbers.
As for the USAF its hard to say. The F-35 will be in service but they still will be flying with older F-16 and F-15 planes.

 

[kay_man]

True, the oldest fighter in the Indian Air Force by 2020 will be 4+ generation aircrafts. They also will have fighters in great numbers. If you look at Russia the probably will have 4+ - 5th generations fighters as well but not in very large numbers.
As for the USAF its hard to say. The F-35 will be in service but they still will be flying with older F-16 and F-15 planes.

according to me...
on the basis of tehnology alone it would be as follows..
1) USA ( they have got a very early start withe raptor )
2) Russia / India ( bcoz the Pak-fa is a joint venture and is likely to make its debut soon enough )
3) Rest of the NATO countries ( they are likely to receive tech from USA )
4) China (con it also has its own stealth aircraft projects. also its ever increasing defence budget means it will update the remaining planes in its fleet)
5)Israel (becoz of its involvement in F-35 ll )

on the basis of numbers it would have to be..
1)China
2)USA
3)India
4)Russia
5) can't say....

 

[Misguided Fool]

How about France?

They're one of the few countries in the world with an operational carrier (Charles de Gaule, a CVN) with a naval aircraft wing to boot with the principle fighter being operational from USN carriers.

Their main fighter will be the Rafale, one of the most advanced fighter planes currently available (comparable to the Typhoon, Gripen) with 286 ordered. While i don't know much about French missile technology, i know that in general their stuff is shorter ranged than US or Russian stuff. Only 109 of the rafales (i think) have currently been inducted, but the French have some of the most advanced fighters ever made - the famous Mirage series of planes (266 M2000s, 109 MF1s). As far as i'm aware the Mirage F1s are tailored towards nuclear and conventional munitions delivery (ie, they're more so attack aircraft) while the 2000s are more of air superiority fighters while the rafales are a mix of both (ofcourse they're all multirole fighters, but with different levels of specialization).

They have E3s, so it's not like they lack an AWACS system, with 99 Alpha Jets they aren't exactly lacking in training aircraft, and with 14 stratotankers their Mirages aren't gonna be diving into the Atlantic :.

I think that in the order of Global Airforces, France is a close third after the Russian airforce .

 

[gf0012-aust]

They're one of the few countries in the world with an operational carrier (Charles de Gaule, a CVN) with a naval aircraft wing to boot with the principle fighter being operational from USN carriers.

CdG is inop again IIRC. They're using USN carriers for CATOBAR continuation training because no one else has got one operational.

A bit of a forced circumstance in that sense.

 

[Misguided Fool]

Aha, Charles De Gaule himself must be turning in the grave at the thought of cooperation with the Americans! :

May i ask why CdG is inoperational? A refit? Upgrades?

Do you have a link to an article if possible?

 

[ROCK45]

Most advance

Bang-Bang
I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

I don't think India should be that far up on the list I would put Israel,UK, France, Russia, above India.

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

I thought India only around 70 MKI Flankers and HAL won't finished the rest until 2015/2017, I think most of the above countries how more advance platforms operational

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Still waiting on any real information nothing to sink your teeth into yet.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

Isn't this going on for seven or eight years now still two or three years away from getting the first batch, small numbers built by the seller. I believe the rest will be built by HAL so look at around the pace of MKI Flankers being produce give or take. I don't think you count this yet since nothing has really been started.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....

I read about the Mig-23 retiring and the Mig-21s are a little different some of the Bison models are useful. India's Mig-29 fleet is on the older side as well another huge project that's taking a few years to get started.


Russia - I think the small numbers of upgraded Flankers and low training hours keeps them from from being rated higher.

China's difficult for me I don't know a lot about there training they do have a fair share of model Flankers. Nobody knows if the J-10 is really good or not, China's just not that open about it. I think it is, it shows promise from the released specs just wish there were more we knew about it.

I think training is the key I read many times from real military personnel you fight like you train. Make the training as real as possible and in most cases you'll beat the other guy.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Aha, Charles De Gaule himself must be turning in the grave at the thought of cooperation with the Americans! :

May i ask why CdG is inoperational? A refit? Upgrades?

Do you have a link to an article if possible?

It has been undergoing an extensive upgrade and refit for the past 15 months. I think CDG would rather American co-operation, that allows a French capability to survive, rather than NO carrier training whatsoever for more than a year...

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3851456

 

[Aussie Digger]

If you simply want "advanced" rather than "best".

Singapore, Japan, South Korea and Australia HAVE to rate highly in these topics.


Singapore - E-2C Hawkeye, being replaced with it's 2nd generation AEW&C capability - the G550 CAEW.

A modern F-16 fleet, with advanced BVR capability, advanced air to surface and EW capability.

A new F-15SG fleet, which will provide the most capable F-15 fleet on Earth.


Japan -

E-767 AWACS fleet.

New 767 based AAR.

Large F-15 fleet, about to be upgraded.

Searching for a new "next generation" fighter.

South Korea -

Introducing new advanced F-15 fleet, with extensive A2A capability, significant stand-off strike capability with SLAM-ER standoff missile.

Large and advanced F-16 fleet.

Seeking next generation fighter, expected to be F-35 for "stealth" capability.

Designing and building own fast jet trainer and light attack aircraft - T-50/A-50.

Acquiring new Wedgetail AEW&C capability.

Australia -

Large and capable legacy F/A-18 capability, with advanced BVR and WVR missile capability, AGM-158 JASSM capability being introduced (only Country in the world besides USA currently authorised to deploy JASSM) and strong JDAM capability being enhanced with indigenous extended range variants.

The first nation to introduce the brand new KC-30A AAR.

Acquiring new Block II Super Hornet squadron with new APG-79 radar, plus JSOW weapon acquisition. (First nation outide USA to acquire this capability).

Acquiring new and largest fleet of Wedgetail AEW&C.

Only nation in the world (besides USA) to fund and gain access to new WGS broadband satellite communications capability.

Access to USA "SBIRS" (satellite based infra-red surveillance system).

Jindalee over the horizon HF radar. One of the largest (if not THE largest) radar surveillance systems in the world.

On a pure technology basis, these nations stack up well against most everyone...

USA is the clear, indisputable leader however.

 

[StingrayOZ]

AD are you really putting Australia up there as one of the most advanced air forces world wide?

F-111? F-18? Bous? Thats what we have now..

Soon yes, F-35's, F-18 SH with growler capable wiring and possibly pods, Wedgetail etc. Soon Australia will field one of the most capable defence forces world wide with full spectrum capabilities (except a known nuclear weapon but that is irrelivant these days). Placing us possibly ahead of France, Germany, UK, the Dutch when concidering the naval, air and ground capabilities (not in sheer numbers of course, but in terms of what we can offer).

But not today.

I would also haggle that Japans AF is not exactly brimming with moderness either. Early 1980's vintage F-15's and 1970's era F-4's...

But as for who has the lowest average age for an airframe? Dunno? Swedes?

 

[ASFC]

Of the top of my head, my top ten most advanced (not biggest) world air forces would look like this:

US
UK
France
Australia
Japan
S. Korea
Rest of NATO
Russia
India
China

Of course if you want the largest air forces then the picture would look different. I clarify this because some on the first page seem to be confusing their terms. Biggest ≠ Most advanced necessarily.

 

[Aussie Digger]

AD are you really putting Australia up there as one of the most advanced air forces world wide?

Yep.

I was talking technology, not "size" which some people here are concerned with.

F-111? F-18? Bous? Thats what we have now..

Our F/A-18's are amongst the most advanced on Earth. They have the ALR-67(v3) RWR, which is the same as used in the IDECM EW system on the Super Hornet. They have tested and are in the process of receiving SAAB BOL countermeasure dispensers, along with the normal ALE-47, which provides an enormous boost in the numbers of deployable countermeasures. They have a new ELTA active self-protection jammer being integrated, which has stunned everyone with it's capability in recent EW exercises.

That's an impressive EW capability.

They have the ASRAAM missile integrated with JHMCS (the first user to completely do this) and have just conducted the world's first" lock on after launch" firing profile at extreme high off-boresite angles (the target was actually BEHIND the firing platform).

What this means is that RAAF's Hornets have effectively achieved an F-35 like capability in that it can launch missiles at aircraft BEHIND the Hornet without needing to manoeuvre to engage them. An aircraft that cannot do this, MUST manoeuvre to get a firing solution.Technology has negated this requirement with consequent obvious benefits in range performance and fuel burn. Even the USA does not have this capability. Yet.

The F/A-18's are integrating the AGM-158 JASSM. Australia is the only allied nation currently authorised to acquire this weapon. Finland tried and was rejected. JASSM is the world's first 400k ranged, very low observable standoff missile.

They subsequently settled on AGM-154 JSOW instead. Which we ALSO have on order, with first weapons delivery for JSOW and other weapons in the Super Hornet package.


We have Bous and F-111s? We also have C-130J-30, C-17A and special forces modified C-130H's too... How many Countries HAVE C-17A? The answer is that we are in the top 4... Special forces modified Hercs? A very select crowd...

The Bous are gone before the end of the year.

F-111's are gone by the end of next year (effectively). Their replacement is the Super Hornet, already in production and offering new technologies such as LO features, AESA radar, towed active radar decoy systems, HART etc, which are features SH and newer aircraft possess and nothing else does. 12x of our Supers will be wired for Growler capability.

RAAF operates the Litening AT targetting pod with the ROVER tactical data-link (download) capability. Few countries can boast this. In 2010 we will operate ATFLIR. The 2nd Country in the world to do so...

Soon yes, F-35's, F-18 SH with growler capable wiring and possibly pods, Wedgetail etc. Soon Australia will field one of the most capable defence forces world wide with full spectrum capabilities (except a known nuclear weapon but that is irrelivant these days). Placing us possibly ahead of France, Germany, UK, the Dutch when concidering the naval, air and ground capabilities (not in sheer numbers of course, but in terms of what we can offer).

But not today.

Yes, we are improving, but you are not seriously looking at our current capabilities...

I would also haggle that Japans AF is not exactly brimming with moderness either. Early 1980's vintage F-15's and 1970's era F-4's...

But as for who has the lowest average age for an airframe? Dunno? Swedes?

Japan's F-2 operates an AESA fire control radar. Japan operates a very large and highly upgraded P-3C Orion fleet.

They have a relatively new E-767 AWACS capability, featuring an extensive Japanese avionics load. The Japanese are somewhat known for their electronics capability, I understand...

 

[OPSSG]

RAAF operates the Litening AT targetting pod with the ROVER tactical data-link (download) capability. Few countries can boast this. In 2010 we will operate ATFLIR. The 2nd Country in the world to do so...

AD is the ROVER tactical data-link similar to the one supplied by L3 Communications? I have also seen an Australian presentation on the ROVER tactical data-link. Can you provide a little more information (as I am very curious about what it brings to the table)?

Japan's F-2 operates an AESA fire control radar. Japan operates a very large and highly upgraded P-3C Orion fleet.

They have a relatively new E-767 AWACS capability, featuring an extensive Japanese avionics load. The Japanese are somewhat known for their electronics capability, I understand...

To add to your point, we must look at the size of the Japanese Defence budget. By any measure, the Japanese defence budget is large and they often modify and improve the American equipment they manufacture. IIRC, the F-2 is one of the most extreme modification ever done to a F-16 platform.