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The most advanced Air Forces today?

This is a discussion on The most advanced Air Forces today? within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; So the most advanced and most powerfull air force today is offcourse the US Airforce but after that? Sure if ...


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Old March 12th, 2009   #1
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The most advanced Air Forces today?

So the most advanced and most powerfull air force today is offcourse the US Airforce but after that? Sure if you look at numbers the russians are still in a good second place but how advanced are the russian military aircaft at present? The the most modern fighter (that has been produced in more then 10 ex) is the Su-27 that was designed in the early 1980s, in comparement with the soon to be 230 Su-30MKI Indian fighters they are far behind. China does also have fighters in large numbers but like the russians (even worse relly) the still rely on old planes like the F-7 (MiG-21), they have the Su-30MKK/2 and J-10 but not in very big numbers yet.
Then we have the european air forces like the Royal air force and the French and German air forces. The have some relly advanced and modern aircrafts like the Eurofighter and the Raphale, but like the Chines they dont have any of them in large numbers.

Lets split this up.
1: After the USAF what is the most powerfull Air Force today?
2: Who has the strongest Air Force in 2025?
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Old March 12th, 2009   #2
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hmm well russian pilots recieve less flight hours then their chinese counterparts, so dunno about capability and readness their. so china has 400 modern (J-10, J-11(Su-27), Su-30, JH-7A), 200 Semi modern (J-8), and about 400-500 obsolete (J-7). So its not great but not to terrible. china airforces are alright. in 2025, usaf will loose it if it keeps on running borrowed money, their account is depleted and in serious debt. Russia, China might get it, depends who has a larger military budget. EU, not a country.
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Old March 13th, 2009   #3
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Guys this thread is very close to a vs. thread. I'm going to let it run for now, but don't turn this into a nationalistic pissing contest. Thanks.
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Old March 13th, 2009   #4
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If not by sheer size and rather also by kills scored, training imparted, fighters and support aircraft then one cannot easily forget the Israeli Air Force, they are pretty good; also countries like Turkey, UAE cannot be ignored based on the modern aircraft in their respective inventories as well as acquisition programmes.

Also I doubt it if in 2025 the USAF will lose its numero uno position - highly unlikely
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Old March 13th, 2009   #5
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i would argue that after USAF the second most capable would be USN.

even American Navy has an army that has an air force that would be pretty high up on the list.
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Old March 13th, 2009   #6
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Then we have other airforces like the Swedes with thier ~150 Gripen fighters. I agree that the USAF probably will be alot weaker in 2025, but then if the Russians doesnt start to shape up in the next 5-10 years they wont be much of a threat. No I would think that China and India will compet for the number one air force. But sure the USAF would still be a big contender.
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Old March 13th, 2009   #7
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There's a huge differnece between most advanced, and most powerful. One, is not a requirement of the other.

From a technological standpoint ie most advanced, if the US stopped ALL R&D today, they would still be the most technologically advanced in 2025 by virute of the F-22 and F-35. It's taken nearly that long (14 years) to field an operational squadron of the F-22's and that's AFTER a flying prototype was created. There's no prototype in the world now that has the potential to compete against F-22.

From a power standpoint, that's going to depend on the economic future. Between the US Air Force and US Navy I don't see the possibility of any one country achieving superiority in power either.

Of course the US could go under economically like the Soviets and lose that prestige and if that happens, I would look to the Russians (if they prosper economically) or the Chinese to take the crown. I think the Russians have more potential and would be my bet but who knows?
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Old March 14th, 2009   #8
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I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....
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Old March 14th, 2009   #9
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I think , we cant really ignore India Here .

Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.

Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.

Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.

We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....
True, the oldest fighter in the Indian Air Force by 2020 will be 4+ generation aircrafts. They also will have fighters in great numbers. If you look at Russia the probably will have 4+ - 5th generations fighters as well but not in very large numbers.
As for the USAF its hard to say. The F-35 will be in service but they still will be flying with older F-16 and F-15 planes.
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Old March 14th, 2009   #10
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True, the oldest fighter in the Indian Air Force by 2020 will be 4+ generation aircrafts. They also will have fighters in great numbers. If you look at Russia the probably will have 4+ - 5th generations fighters as well but not in very large numbers.
As for the USAF its hard to say. The F-35 will be in service but they still will be flying with older F-16 and F-15 planes.
according to me...
on the basis of tehnology alone it would be as follows..
1) USA ( they have got a very early start withe raptor )
2) Russia / India ( bcoz the Pak-fa is a joint venture and is likely to make its debut soon enough )
3) Rest of the NATO countries ( they are likely to receive tech from USA )
4) China (con it also has its own stealth aircraft projects. also its ever increasing defence budget means it will update the remaining planes in its fleet)
5)Israel (becoz of its involvement in F-35 ll )

on the basis of numbers it would have to be..
1)China
2)USA
3)India
4)Russia
5) can't say....
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Old March 14th, 2009   #11
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How about France?

They're one of the few countries in the world with an operational carrier (Charles de Gaule, a CVN) with a naval aircraft wing to boot with the principle fighter being operational from USN carriers.

Their main fighter will be the Rafale, one of the most advanced fighter planes currently available (comparable to the Typhoon, Gripen) with 286 ordered. While i don't know much about French missile technology, i know that in general their stuff is shorter ranged than US or Russian stuff. Only 109 of the rafales (i think) have currently been inducted, but the French have some of the most advanced fighters ever made - the famous Mirage series of planes (266 M2000s, 109 MF1s). As far as i'm aware the Mirage F1s are tailored towards nuclear and conventional munitions delivery (ie, they're more so attack aircraft) while the 2000s are more of air superiority fighters while the rafales are a mix of both (ofcourse they're all multirole fighters, but with different levels of specialization).

They have E3s, so it's not like they lack an AWACS system, with 99 Alpha Jets they aren't exactly lacking in training aircraft, and with 14 stratotankers their Mirages aren't gonna be diving into the Atlantic .

I think that in the order of Global Airforces, France is a close third after the Russian airforce .
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Old March 14th, 2009   #12
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They're one of the few countries in the world with an operational carrier (Charles de Gaule, a CVN) with a naval aircraft wing to boot with the principle fighter being operational from USN carriers.
CdG is inop again IIRC. They're using USN carriers for CATOBAR continuation training because no one else has got one operational.

A bit of a forced circumstance in that sense.
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Old March 14th, 2009   #13
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Aha, Charles De Gaule himself must be turning in the grave at the thought of cooperation with the Americans!

May i ask why CdG is inoperational? A refit? Upgrades?

Do you have a link to an article if possible?
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Old March 14th, 2009   #14
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Wink Most advance

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Bang-Bang
I think , we cant really ignore India Here .
I don't think India should be that far up on the list I would put Israel,UK, France, Russia, above India.

Quote:
Look at 230 MKI's , One of the best 4.5+ Gen. aircraft.
I thought India only around 70 MKI Flankers and HAL won't finished the rest until 2015/2017, I think most of the above countries how more advance platforms operational

Quote:
Look at PAK-FA , MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) 5 Gen. aircraft projects.
Still waiting on any real information nothing to sink your teeth into yet.


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Look At upcomming 126 (Maybe 200) Rafale , F-18's, Gripen or Mig-35.
Isn't this going on for seven or eight years now still two or three years away from getting the first batch, small numbers built by the seller. I believe the rest will be built by HAL so look at around the pace of MKI Flankers being produce give or take. I don't think you count this yet since nothing has really been started.

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We all know India still have Old MiG's in their fleet .... but they are replacing it .....
I read about the Mig-23 retiring and the Mig-21s are a little different some of the Bison models are useful. India's Mig-29 fleet is on the older side as well another huge project that's taking a few years to get started.


Russia - I think the small numbers of upgraded Flankers and low training hours keeps them from from being rated higher.

China's difficult for me I don't know a lot about there training they do have a fair share of model Flankers. Nobody knows if the J-10 is really good or not, China's just not that open about it. I think it is, it shows promise from the released specs just wish there were more we knew about it.

I think training is the key I read many times from real military personnel you fight like you train. Make the training as real as possible and in most cases you'll beat the other guy.
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Old March 14th, 2009   #15
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Aha, Charles De Gaule himself must be turning in the grave at the thought of cooperation with the Americans!

May i ask why CdG is inoperational? A refit? Upgrades?

Do you have a link to an article if possible?
It has been undergoing an extensive upgrade and refit for the past 15 months. I think CDG would rather American co-operation, that allows a French capability to survive, rather than NO carrier training whatsoever for more than a year...

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3851456
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