Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
The U.S.N has trialled reloading at sea recently ,Im not sure if the RAN would go down that path ,,their need was to adddress the distance to ports where they could replenish missile stocks after action ,calm seas being vital
I'm not sure how realistic it is, they used a 200 metre specialised crane ship.

I'm assuming that if it was possible for a normal replenishment ship to do it using its own resources they would have used one of those for a more realistic proof of concept.
 

MARKMILES77

Well-Known Member
Australian Government has revealed, at a press conference, some of the weapons/payloads which Ghost Shark can potentially carry/launch including:
-Sea Mines
-Altius Unmanned Aerial Vehicles with Kinetic Payloads
-Logistics Caches, presumably to resupply Special Forces.
-Light Weight and Heavy Weight Torpedos.



MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY PAT CONROY:

Screenshot 2026-10-19 at 19.45.54.png


CEO OF ANDURIL DAVID GOODRICH
Screenshot 2026-10-19 at 19.47.14.png
 

MARKMILES77

Well-Known Member
Photo from the Press Conference showing the Altius and a Sea Mine in the Background.

Screenshot 2026-10-19 at 20.42.55.png



Information on what the Altius offers:
 
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iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Yes, but so is it with APIN and the RAAF bases we’ve pushed north.

I am curious why they are apparently not so important as the RAN and why they don’t struggle to recruit apparently (they do…) with remote postings but the RAN does.
The real problem we have is a credible defense against drone and missile attacks against our facilities. A container ship off the coast could launch a devastating attack against our most important bases and we can't defend them. People talk it down but it's so easy to do.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Australian Government has revealed, at a press conference, some of the weapons/payloads which Ghost Shark can potentially carry/launch including:
-Sea Mines
-Altius Unmanned Aerial Vehicles with Kinetic Payloads
-Logistics Caches, presumably to resupply Special Forces.
-Light Weight and Heavy Weight Torpedos.



MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY PAT CONROY:

View attachment 55829


CEO OF ANDURIL DAVID GOODRICH
View attachment 55830
As I have said before, I think Pat Conroy is across his brief and actually gives a **** about his portfolio. There's a bit of Kim Beazley in him.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Photo from the Press Conference showing the Altius and a Sea Mine in the Background.

View attachment 55831



Information on what the Altius offers:
I'm assuming that the mine is the RWM Italia Asteria ones that we purchased a couple of years ago?. 12 as a single payload is a good number. Indicates a decent size cargo bay on the ghost shark.

Anduril have their second product with the Altius 600. Talk about selling the car and making a killing on the accessories. Well I hope we make heaps of them. I saw a video online of an Altius being fired from the ghost shark. Looks effective, I wonder if they plan to fit the ISR or armed version of the Altius, or both. Should be able to fit a lot of them in the cargo bay.

I look forward to the announcement that they are being fitted with Anduril's copperhead torpedos, which were alluded to in the interview.

While the ghost shark got all the airplay, the towed array for the blue bottle is also pretty cool.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
The real problem we have is a credible defense against drone and missile attacks against our facilities. A container ship off the coast could launch a devastating attack against our most important bases and we can't defend them. People talk it down but it's so easy to do.
It may not be off the coast ,they could be launched from anywhere as per Ukraine war
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
I'm assuming that the mine is the RWM Italia Asteria ones that we purchased a couple of years ago?. 12 as a single payload is a good number. Indicates a decent size cargo bay on the ghost shark.

Anduril have their second product with the Altius 600. Talk about selling the car and making a killing on the accessories. Well I hope we make heaps of them. I saw a video online of an Altius being fired from the ghost shark. Looks effective, I wonder if they plan to fit the ISR or armed version of the Altius, or both. Should be able to fit a lot of them in the cargo bay.

I look forward to the announcement that they are being fitted with Anduril's copperhead torpedos, which were alluded to in the interview.

While the ghost shark got all the airplay, the towed array for the blue bottle is also pretty cool.
With regards to kinetic weapons on Ghost Shark is this an autominous feature or is there a"man in the loop" ,the statement included heavyweight torpedoes, mark 48 perhaps, does this vessel have sensors find and identify targets or rely on manned submarine that can distinguish between friendly and non friendly . I understand the Ghost Sharks top speed unladen is seven knots would this limit the manned submarine to this speed ,the manned submarine might via some wiring provide data to the Ghost Shark ,Im just speculating of course
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
I wasn"t even aware Australia was acquiring Altius. The next step could be something like Copperhead. I am also wondering if we might see missiles such as the Barracuda opperated off the Ghost Shark as well.
 

OldTex

Well-Known Member
I wasn"t even aware Australia was acquiring Altius. The next step could be something like Copperhead. I am also wondering if we might see missiles such as the Barracuda opperated off the Ghost Shark as well.
Perhaps it is more of a case of the CEO of Andruil trying to influence or preempt some planning or proposals for how the RAN might use the potential capabilities of the Ghost Shark platform. Where are the independent CONOPS for the use of IRST/strike UAVs from an XLUUV?
 

AndyinOz

Active Member
I suspect that the Copperhead line is probably where the direction is for arming the Ghost Shark UUV if Anduril is hoping to sell an integrated system. Anduril discussed them on their website the 100 and 500 designations seemingly referring to the payload size which can also include sensing not just the explod-y stuff.
 

InterestedParty

Active Member
Do these unmanned vessels have any means of self-defence, even to the point of self-destruction to prevent capture?
For me it is reminiscent of tanks in WW2 where tanks would have to protect each other from infantry as the crew could defend itself. Now we don't even have a crew
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
Do these unmanned vessels have any means of self-defence, even to the point of self-destruction to prevent capture?
For me it is reminiscent of tanks in WW2 where tanks would have to protect each other from infantry as the crew could defend itself. Now we don't even have a crew
Be quite embarrasing to get caught in a Chinese fishing net a few weeks ago Iranian forces are claiming capture of intact a U.S.N drone remus 600
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Be quite embarrasing to get caught in a Chinese fishing net a few weeks ago Iranian forces are claiming capture of intact a U.S.N drone remus 600
Not embarrassing, a known risk of operating that sort of asset.

A couple of years ago an ANZAC class got tangled up in the South China Sea. It caused a bit of an incident when a Chinese destroyer starting throwing active sonar around when HMAS Toowoomba had divers in the water cutting the net free.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how realistic it is, they used a 200 metre specialised crane ship.

I'm assuming that if it was possible for a normal replenishment ship to do it using its own resources they would have used one of those for a more realistic proof of concept.
The pictures appear to show a Ticonderoga, not an Arleigh Burke
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
It may not be off the coast ,they could be launched from anywhere as per Ukraine war
True, but due to our isolation shipping would be the likely source, either above or below the surface. Operation Spiderweb probably wouldn't work here. It would require a significant Fifth Column to pull it off.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
The pictures appear to show a Ticonderoga, not an Arleigh Burke
There have been multiple tests.

 

Takao

The Bunker Group
Is there any advantage for the RAN to disperse the basing of their larger vessels to other deep water harbours away from East Base West e.g. Port Kembla ,H.M.A.S Port Coonawarra Darwin which is the closest deepwater port to Asia. It seems that the East Base is based on a heritage factor from the time of ships of sail any thought?
To what end?

Dispersal for dispersals sake is pointless, so what is the problem you are trying to solve?

If it's defence, historically speaking, concentration is better. Our major fleet units are very valuable (as has always been the case), and killing in port is easier than at sea. But killing with what? Stirling and FBE are out of range of the vast majority of heavy threat's, they have easily surveilled surface approaches and being in two locations mean that cUAS is easier. The latter is particularly important, at the moment the cUAS bill is for two ports, every dispersal increases that cost by another port. Note that the UK, US, USSR, Italy, France and Japan (all with significant naval power at some point in the 20/21st centuries) all concentrated their fleet in a small number of ports - even when the threat was signficant (looks at Scarpa Flow)

If it's time to action, there are two issues. First is that ships often use the time between Sitrling/FBE and their AO to drill - unlike Army or Air Force they don't keep all their skills up to speed when in harbour. So there is some force prep time that you lose. Secondly is the threat mentioned above. Thirdly, where is the area of action? If it's the MEAO (like the majority of deployments in the 21st century have been), you don't gain anything. If it's the Pacific or Coral Sea, likewise. If it's equal or north of Mindanao, then the 5 days saved don't really matter (I'm sure that the sailors will disagree with me...).

Of course, that's only focused on the fighting bit. The actual reason for ports - the maintenance, life support, navy base 'stuff'. The Captain Cook Graving Dock is literally worth more to the fleet than if you filled it entirely with gold (although then we could afford SSNs.....). It's literally irreplicable. But the big cranes, the heavy repair parts storage, the fuel lines, the whole bit. Duplicating that becomes crazy expensive.

One issue that I seem to recall cropping up repeatedly are retention issues caused by personnel getting posted to bases in areas with less opportunities available for partners/families, and/or the facilities being a very long way away from family. It has been my understanding that the desire to establish a RAN sub facility somewhere on the East Coast is related to issues the RAN had with attracting and retaining submariners with all RAN sub ops being homeported at FBW.
This is absolutely true. Dispersal will suit some of the sailors/officers, but most of them won't appreciate it. Having a major east and west coast base, with a minor NE and N base, suits recruiting and retention significantly.

Strange that affects the RAN but not the rest of ADF…

/sarcasm off.

It obviously does, RAN just seems exempt from the push to house all ADF units in the North.
As stupid as the push north has been retrospectively (and I look back on my northern postings with significant fondness) from a retention point of view, there is one significant difference between Navy and the other two. With the exception of a handful of units, the majority of Army and RAAF personnel will spend most of their time at home during a posting. Yes, in the 2000s/10s there were deployments to the ME, but that was all three services. For the average Army unit, there will be a couple of FTX working up to a Div Warfighter or Talisman Sabre. 6 - 8 weeks field plus another 4 - 6 away getting there and back. a RAN unit could be spending 3 - 4 months deployed in the region 2 - 3 times in a year. Critically, while the Army/RAAF units are most likely to exercise in Australia (yes, Red Flag. Yes, Balikatan, Yes, PNG - I said likely), the Navy will often have unreliable comms. It's harder to get a sailor home. All this means that the average sailor's family need more stability and a persistence in support networks, because it's harder to support their family when they are in the fleet.

Anecdotally, it also appears that there is a difference between the services during standdown. Based on numerous years experience in the NT across all three Services, the PB crews deal with their off-time very differently to the others. My peers and I think it has something to do with the permanence of the networks - that while Air Force and Army can build the community ties, the PB crews struggle, because they are away so often for such time. More than once, the topic has come up in the Joint environment this discrepancy has come up - and that dates back to early 2010s.

Another way to look at it can facilities be in place for ships to replenish elsewhere during hostilities that cuts back on travel time for ships that may have expended their munitions and need to quickly replenish , it might be ships returning to a known predictable port are at risk e.g. mines submarines. The R.A.A.F has quite a number of airfields that provide in a way a similar backup easing dispersal
We have that. There are a number of ports identified with appropriate EO licenses ready to go, wharves to take cranes and the like. We have been rehearsing for years now - here is HMCS Ville de Québec being done in Darwin and HMCS Vancouver being done in Broome. Yes, reload of VLS at sea is an issue, but between JLC and the RAN we've had the capability to do forward rearming and reloading for a while now. It's been done for RN, RCN, USN and RAN ships across 20mm, 30mm, 5" and a variety of VLS.

And ships can refuel and restock at sea. I am in the team thinking that an expanded oiler fleet is advantageous.
Surely not?! The experts told me I could replace 8 Anzacs with 4 Hunters and 11 Mogami's, increase their AO and time at sea - but wouldn't need another AOR! SammyC, what are you thinking!?

I'm just glad our current AORs are super reliable

(and yes, watching a senior Admiral bite his tounge as I said the above to him was simultaneously entertaining and disappointing. Not that he disagreed, but that even with 41% of the IIP neither he nor my senior person could get anyone to back more AORs.....)
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
There is probably something to be said for pre-positioned equipment up north or in training areas while basing the majority of personnel in the major metropolitan areas.

Of course that requires that enough equipment be purchased to allow such a thing to be considered.

Then again, if this country had a decent standardised rail network you could probably get an entire brigade set from Sydney to Townsville in 1-2 days. But again, that is unlikely to happen in any of our lifetimes bar some major catastrophe forcing the issue.
 
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