Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

The Romeo and Sierra have iirc over 80% commonality with the difference essentially in the sensor suites and a in couple of other surmountable areas such as undercarriage as RegR pointed out. The fundamentals of the aircraft are the same in so many areas, therefore the risks and traditional costs of a split fleet are significantly reduced and the economies of operative scale and base platform capability increase. If the winds of fiscal fortune were to change and we were seeking the best solution for our maritime rotary capability then a Romeo / Sierra split would make sense. However in the short-medium term a cheaper more familiar solution is were the Treasury weegee board is heading.

Hobart Visit by Te Kaha and Endeavour

It was good to see Te Kaha and Endeavour in Hobart today. Photos in DT photos and in my blog:

Tasman's Blog: HMNZS Endeavour and Te Kaha in Hobart


Tas

Tasman said:

It was good to see Te Kaha and Endeavour in Hobart today. Photos in DT photos and in my blog:

Tasman's Blog: HMNZS Endeavour and Te Kaha in Hobart


Tas

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Nice shots, they have finished exercises off Western Australia and are heading home.
http://navy.mil.nz/know-your-navy/n...id={32bd3330-6ebf-4ecf-b39f-85e740f96fb8}.htm
http://navy.mil.nz/visit-the-fleet/te-kaha/recent-activities-te-kaha/27032012tekaha.htm
Presumably they would have refueled in Hobart (rather than trek to Sydney) being the shortest route (of the two) back to Auckland?

recce.k1 said:

Nice shots, they have finished exercises off Western Australia and are heading home.
RNZN - Media Releases
RNZN - Attack on bridge climax of TE KAHA's work-up
Presumably they would have refueled in Hobart (rather than trek to Sydney) being the shortest route (of the two) back to Auckland?

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Ahhh, Te Kaha was with endeavour so i doubt fuel was the issue...

Probably just a routine port call, I caught them when they were in Sydney a few weeks back looking pretty good. Much prefer the kiwi grey to the Aussies greeny type colour.

Vanguard said:

Probably just a routine port call, I caught them when they were in Sydney a few weeks back looking pretty good. Much prefer the kiwi grey to the Aussies greeny type colour.

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They had been exercising with OZ units and I guess Endeavour is in demand with the RAN as a result of problems with Success. Te Kawa was here previously in December 2008 and Endeavour has also visited before.

Glad that the 'hit' on the bridge during the exercise was a smoke canister rather than an Aussie rocket like the one that accidently hit the cruiser Bellona's stern in the early 1950s...


Tas

icelord said:

Ahhh, Te Kaha was with endeavour so i doubt fuel was the issue...

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Ooooooooh yeah! Mind you, just been looking on wiki, how does military refueling work eg say for RAN & RNZN, are fuel costs the same or would it be cheaper depending on location eg refueling in Singapore (or even Hobart than say Auckland)?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil"]Fuel oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Might be a dry subject so here's something else perhaps more appealing, the NZ Parliament's Finance and Expenditure Committee notes, pp14-15, RNZN (use of external resources) in 2011/12 to assess:

*Structural Inshore Patrol Vessel (IPV) investigative work: Independent analysis and checks of IPV structure, on an as required basis

*Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) composite mast demonstrator feasibility study: this study will increase RNZN composites expertise. A future ANZAC replacement may have significant amounts of composite material in its superstructure. This work will probably enable the development of an OPV composite mast demonstrator.

*Design and transfer of hydrographic equipment to the OPVs: required contractual engagement of subject matter experts (SMEs) to identify, design and fit military hydrographic equipment from HMNZS Resolution to the OPVs.

I take it the first one is a result of the Project Protector warranty work identifying issues where the steel hull and aluminium superstructure joins or is this something else? The second, is the composite mast demonstrator to be actually fitted and also have equipment installed and working (comms, radar etc) to gauge issues and effectiveness or simply non-operative looking at weight and structural integrity issues etc? The third, sounds like Lucasnz was spot on predicting the OPV's would fullfil some of Resolutions roles!

Wondering if anyone noticed this in the Major Projects Report 2011- volume 2 on the MOD site under the Project Protector Remedial Programme, phase three works.
This concerns Canterbury and the OPV,s.

"The upgrade to the naval gun system has proven more problematic with a system audit indicating many of the components are approaching obsolescence and if upgraded to newer technology, the gun system would still be challenged to meet the performance requirements. An option of replacing the complete naval gun system with one currently in service is being investigated."

If we are talking about a gun system in RNZN service then the phalanx block B comes to mind, I can't imagine we are talking about the mini typhoon system.
If we are talking about a gun system currently in use worldwide then the options multiply substantually, orginally I was an advocate of BAE systems mark3 40mm. But I am sure, no matter the merits of any particular system, cost will be a major factor in the final outcome.

CJohn said:

Wondering if anyone noticed this in the Major Projects Report 2011- volume 2 on the MOD site under the Project Protector Remedial Programme, phase three works.
This concerns Canterbury and the OPV,s.

"The upgrade to the naval gun system has proven more problematic with a system audit indicating many of the components are approaching obsolescence and if upgraded to newer technology, the gun system would still be challenged to meet the performance requirements. An option of replacing the complete naval gun system with one currently in service is being investigated."

If we are talking about a gun system in RNZN service then the phalanx block B comes to mind, I can't imagine we are talking about the mini typhoon system.
If we are talking about a gun system currently in use worldwide then the options multiply substantually, orginally I was an advocate of BAE systems mark3 40mm. But I am sure, no matter the merits of any particular system, cost will be a major factor in the final outcome.

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It does suggest they're looking at something the RNZN already have in use - so scary as it sounds I'm afraid the mini-typhoon would be my pick as to what they're referring to... :wah

Let's face it - read the papers - Govt cuts are about to go even deeper - there's NO WAY in hell Govt will approve purchase of multi-million dollar weapons systems! At best RNZN might wangle a 'fitted for CIWS but without' for the larger Protector vessels, but I hope they stay with what they've got! Crikey 5 years ago those mounts were supposedly the biz

p.s. By same token my hunch is RNZAF will wait a longer for the Advanced Trainer & B200 multi-engine trainer replacements! The Govt won't give a toss anymore about early commitments c'os they're up to their proverbials financially!

It's pretty clear there won't be any new big ticket items for NZDF in next 5 years at least!

Looks like not much time is being wasted in getting rid of Resolution,
commercial.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=244989 (sorry still cant post links)

pea032 said:

Looks like not much time is being wasted in getting rid of Resolution,
commercial.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=244989 (sorry still cant post links)

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At least they are offering her up for sale with possible futures uses, i'll rather see her do that than go to the breakers or sunk as a diving attraction.

Was Reso old, not fit for service, redundant, leaking or is her demise a cost cutting measure? as from the pictures it seems to be in good condition. Just think it weird we are not waiting for a replacement before getting rid of a rather large and seemingly capable ship.

RegR said:

Was Reso old, not fit for service, redundant, leaking or is her demise a cost cutting measure? as from the pictures it seems to be in good condition. Just think it weird we are not waiting for a replacement before getting rid of a rather large and seemingly capable ship.

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Resolution had served as a United States Naval Ship for about a decade prior to entering NZ service. She has seen about 23 years of service at this point. From my perspective, this might be a decision to sell her while there is still some useful service life where someone else might wish to buy her. OTOH this could also be a 'temporary cost-saving measure' which could become permanent...

-Cheers

Todjaeger said:

Resolution had served as a United States Naval Ship for about a decade prior to entering NZ service. She has seen about 23 years of service at this point. From my perspective, this might be a decision to sell her while there is still some useful service life where someone else might wish to buy her. OTOH this could also be a 'temporary cost-saving measure' which could become permanent...

-Cheers

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If it is to gain capital whilst it is still useful then it would probably be a first as our govts usual policy is to use a platform way past its LOT until it is useful for nothing but scrap or historic attractions.
Agreed I hope this is'nt just a sneaky way to get rid of a capability alltogether to save a buck. It will cost alot to re-instate later on down the track due to lost expertise/currency etc therefore will not be "worth it".

RegR said:

If it is to gain capital whilst it is still useful then it would probably be a first as our govts usual policy is to use a platform way past its LOT until it is useful for nothing but scrap or historic attractions.
Agreed I hope this is'nt just a sneaky way to get rid of a capability alltogether to save a buck. It will cost alot to re-instate later on down the track due to lost expertise/currency etc therefore will not be "worth it".

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My gut-feel is it's cost cutting, but what hasn't been published anywhere is whether RNZN is exiting the contract with LINZ - which has been bread & butter for the vessel (and a income earner for RNZN). Most recent Navy Today mag discusses Resolutions service life with RNZN but says nothing about why she's going nor what happens regarding survey in future.

Apparently talk of transferring equipment to OPV's, but surely there's only 1 MBES to come off Resolution - & given there's 2 x OPV's...:bum Guess they're talking of other gear!?!

RNZN seems to be placing more emphasis on military hydrography - largely a littoral requirement, which the planned LWSV is supposed to support.

So if the OPV's take over the role might that risk pollies telling RNZN that they can keep the OPV's in that role & forego a new LWSV!?! :argue

This was in the 2010 NZDF Report

"The proposed scope of the LINZ contract work for 2009/2010 was not available at the time of publishing Statement of Intent and the intention was to reduce the amount of RESOLUTION-based Sea days undertaken in favour of a larger contribution of small-boat and coastal work. When received, the final contract specifications required RESOLUTION to undertake 3842 Survey Line Nautical Miles which was completed in 62 sea-days committed to LINZ activity."

and in the from the hydrographic society website

"While a grandparenting agreement was reached whereby the RNZN was guaranteed a certain number of hydrographic surveying ship days per year for seven years, it is intended that eventually, the provision of all hydrographic services will become fully contestable."

I think whats happen is that with the reduced LINZ requirement Resolution is no longer paying for itself. I don't have a problem with the OPV picking up the the Military Hydro role, but not at the expense of the Littoral Warfare Vessel, given the OPV are only good for low level threat tasks.

Lucasnz said:

This was in the 2010 NZDF Report

"The proposed scope of the LINZ contract work for 2009/2010 was not available at the time of publishing Statement of Intent and the intention was to reduce the amount of RESOLUTION-based Sea days undertaken in favour of a larger contribution of small-boat and coastal work. When received, the final contract specifications required RESOLUTION to undertake 3842 Survey Line Nautical Miles which was completed in 62 sea-days committed to LINZ activity."

and in the from the hydrographic society website

"While a grandparenting agreement was reached whereby the RNZN was guaranteed a certain number of hydrographic surveying ship days per year for seven years, it is intended that eventually, the provision of all hydrographic services will become fully contestable."

I think whats happen is that with the reduced LINZ requirement Resolution is no longer paying for itself. I don't have a problem with the OPV picking up the the Military Hydro role, but not at the expense of the Littoral Warfare Vessel, given the OPV are only good for low level threat tasks.

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Ah ok, that makes sense then, basically she won't be needed, and in these frugal times...! Yes I also don't mind OPV picking up the Military Hydro role - and as you say certainly not at the expense of the future LWSV.

But I have to admit - I have no faith that we will end up with a MilSpec LWSV - it'll most likely be a civvy based design with minimal systems redundancy (not to MilSpec anyway) - and will be lightly armed. Still, too early to get excited about the design yet.

The new Takapu & Tarapunga are due later this year (basically 10m tenders) - but I actually like the concept! Especially if they can be craned up onto the stern of an OPV for transit.

Haven't seen any detailed design or heard who's supplying them yet!

"Haven't seen any detailed design or heard who's supplying them yet! "

The builder was mentioned a few pages ago I believe, they built one of the new pilot boats for one of the ports, cannot remember which though, which was highly commended.

EDIT: It appears to be QWest on review though there is no specific mention of a source so that may just have been speculation that I had remembered incorrectly.

Vanguard said:

"Haven't seen any detailed design or heard who's supplying them yet! "

The builder was mentioned a few pages ago I believe, they built one of the new pilot boats for one of the ports, cannot remember which though, which was highly commended.

EDIT: It appears to be QWest on review though there is no specific mention of a source so that may just have been speculation that I had remembered incorrectly.

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I mentioned QWest with respect that they do a nice line in small alloy cats and are a local producer based in Wanganui with recent contracts for the Police and Customs.
Not speculation - just a suggestion.

"A full military funeral will be held on Friday for sailor Ben Revell who died from motor neurone disease a day after his daughter had been baptised aboard a navy frigate.

The navy say Able Electronic Warfare Specialist Revell will be given a full military funeral at the Devonport Navy Base.

Revell joined the Royal New Zealand Navy in 2004." Full military funeral for navy battler - national | Stuff.co.nz

This appeared on Stuff this morning. I had been following his story in the Navy News. Instead of medical discharge the Navy kept him on and supported hima nd his whanau. Bravo Zulu to the RNZN for that. RIP and fair winds.